Surface mounted point malfunction with R8247

[notechsavvy]

Run round loop with points at each end controlled from connection 1, R8247.

Both work but wrong way from each other. I changed red and green for one of them now they don't work. I've tried operating one only but it will only work one way. Connected to connection 2 and point works fine both ways. Have I damaged connection 1? Also tried a new point but with the same result.

[Flashbang]

Ensure if using Hornby Surface point motors that Black wire connects to the C terminal.

You can have two point motors work from the one R8247 output. Connect the two Green wires to the + and the two Red wire to the - terminals and both Black wires to the middle "C" terminal. If the two motors operate the wrong way from need, swap around both Green and Red wires in the + and - terminals of that group of three output terminals. Do not move the two Black wires from the C terminal.

If the pair of motors do not seem to work correctly, check each point motor is not to tightly fitted down and any extension wires from the Accessory decoder to motor are in 16/0.2mm wire for all three wires. In fact, I recommend using a three way terminal block per point motor, fitted right by the motor underneath the baseboard and then terminate the factory fitted wires into one side of the block and the 16/0.2mm wires into the other side.

Hope this helps?

[96RAF]

You don’t say which controller you are using.

If your controller is capable disconnect the R8247 from the Track connection and reconnect it to the Prog connection. Write value 8 the CV 8 to reset it to factory default, which puts it back to addresses 1 to 4.

If your controller is a Select what is its firmware version.

[Fishmanoz]

With this setup, known as a passing loop, you obviously need both points at straight ahead or both on the curved track for the loop to be operated correctly. However, using left/right notation, you need one point switched left and the other switched right to achieve this.

Using Flashbang’s wiring instructions above and if you end up with one point pointing to the main track and the other pointing to the passing loop, swap around just one set of red and green wires from one point motor and they should now operate the way you want with both pointing to the main track at the same time or both pointing to the passing loop when switched.

With the switching only one way problem (assuming it was working properly originally and so is wired correctly), then your only solution is a CV8 reset as per Rob’s immediately above, or avoid Port 1 if the other ports are working as you have indicated.

You’ve already been asked to tell us which controller you are using. If it happens to be Railmaster control (I am assuming not for a start as you haven’t posted in the RM forum), then please let us know that too as RM has its own setup problems with red/green dot synchronisation, but all covered extensively in threads in the RM forum.

[notechsavvy]

You don’t say which controller you are using.

If your controller is capable disconnect the R8247 from the Track connection and reconnect it to the Prog connection. Write value 8 the CV 8 to reset it to factory default, which puts it back to addresses 1 to 4.

If your controller is a Select what is its firmware version.

 

 

Mod note - you have fallen into the newbie trap and used the blue button with the white arrow to reply which has repeated my post without adding any further commentary.

Simply scroll down to the bottom of the page to the box with the green reply button and write your reply in there.

[notechsavvy]

96 RAF. Many thanks. However I must as a tech. innocent I follow as far as disconnect from the track but thereafter - Prog connection? value 8 the CV 8? My controller is a select - firmware version?

[Brew Man]

The Select firmware version is indicated by the very first number that appears very briefly when you switch the Select on - xx 30 03. The xx is the number to note and it will be between 10 and 20. 10 denotes version 1.0, 11 = 1.1, 12 = 1.2 etc. unless it is 1.6 or above then an upgrade is strongly advised. You would need to get a returns number from Hornby Customer Care and send it in for an upgrade. The cost is about £15 plus your initial postage. Turn around is typically about 1 week to 10 days.

[96RAF]

@ vincent

Select doesn’t have a Separate Prog output, so you disconnect your layout completely from the track connection and connect only the R8247 A-B directly to the track terminals.

To check your firmware look for the first number on screen as you power it up, this will be followed by 30 then 03 indicating the Select is ready to use. Tell us what that first number is - anything from 10 to 16 or 20.

If you see 16 or 20 then you can reset the R8247 by writing value 8 to CV 8. Note that this will put the address to 1, so you need to rewrite it to 61 which automatically allocates 62, 63, 64 to the other ports.

If it is 15 or less then all you can do is over-write the address starting from 61 and hope it fixes the problem.

If it is 11 then there is a bug in that firmware which damages port 1 of the acc decoder. Once reset it will work fine on ports 2, 3 and 4 until port 1 is selected which then knocks it out again.

Depending upon firmware depends which user manual you need.

Edit - BM posted as I typed so some duplication.

[notechsavvy]

Flashbang and Fishmanoz. My controller is a select. Thanks for your advice but my problem seems to start from the point you have finished. In the first instance, having wired both point motors and connected to the point decoder port 1 I had both working but one set normal whilst the other reversed. This as pointed out (sorry for all the puns) was not what was required. I reversed the connections to one point motor then found that neither would respond. (Decoder set to 61). Trying to solve the problem I disconnected one and tried to operate with just one connected - no response. I know you are all thinking bad connection as was I. So I eliminated all connections and connected the point motor directly to the decoder port 1. Now pressing the arrow buttons on the R8247 and the motor will work one way but not return except, of course, manually whereupon it will again operate in one direction. Connected to port two (which seems to need reprogramming to 62 - shouldn't this be automatic?) the motor now works in both directions. I've not yet tried to reconnect both run round points. Just thought I should solve the basics.

[Brew Man]

I realise you might have checked this but are you sure the motors themselves are properly aligned with the points and that they are not screwed down too tightly? I have found motors, particularly Hornby ones to be very tetchy and require to be aligned just right and square on to the point to work reliably. Other than that, and I know this is not very helpful, just ditch the accessory decoders and wire your points directly to a DC bus via a CDU.

[Fishmanoz]

Vincent, in providing my reply, a significant point I took from you was that it was working originally. This told me your wiring was correct and that, if the point motors were connected to the points themselves (you don’t say, I thought probably not as you were testing motor operation first), then alignment was also correct.

Given those facts, your only way out on Port 1 is a CV 8 reset to see if that brings it back to life. That I covered too.

And you are right, programming Port 1 to 61 should program Ports 2-4 to 62 etc. If not happening, that could well be another indication of a faulty decoder.

[St1ngr4y]

Although I don't use Hornby points, I do use Hornby surface mounted point motors. Is it possible to mount Hornby surface mounted point motors on either side of a Hornby point? If so, this could affect the polarity of the red/green +/- connections.

Ray

[96RAF]

Ideally the R8243 motors should be mounted on the straight side of the point but they can be fitted on the curve side. The motor is wedge shaped and this means that there can be clearance issues or not on left or right hand points, to the extent of having to file the corner off one of mine to prevent fouling on a Class 56 fuel tank moulding.

[RDS]

@Vincent

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