Hornby Elite express net

[Steven Pollard]

Hi

I have a Hornby Elite unit.

Can you add another handset that's not a Hornby select, using the ExpressNet socket?

If this is possible, can you advise a handset unit.

Thanks

Steve

[96RAF]

I know for sure you cannot add another Elite to an Elite, nor can you use an Elite as a Slave to a Select, only the other way round.

The options are:

Select as Master with one or more Selects as Slave(s).

Elite as Master with one or more Selects as Slave(s).

You could physically connect an alien make controller to your Select/Elite, but strictly at your own risk as the Hornby Xpressnet port pin-outs may not match your other controller pin-outs. To give you some idea of this Hornby have 2 different Xpressnet cables, one for use with Walkabouts and one for use with a Booster module.

[wapples]

I love my Hornby elite for me it’s the ULTIMATE train controller and while it can do so much so simply (just don’t loose the manual lol) it baffles me that Hornby Have not innovated. As the tech world changes and smart phones came out AFTFER the elite I’m surprised no adapters or updated firmware to DO MORE. I know you can with third party bits and DCC concepts have some tricks but Hornby have been dragnet with pushing themselves into the future. I would never part with the elite even when they do bring something better out however I can’t help but feel all they need to do is bring out an app or program a quick firmware tweak and there would be another 10 years of serviceable and expandable use. Including this topic where having an elite at either end of the layout would be a TREAT.

OPOAT

[96RAF]

@wapples

Could you explain how you think an Elite would interface with an app. An app essentially uses a handheld (HH) running the software and control is direct from the HH screen.

At present we have RM, which is as close as Windows gets to an app, with the ability to use additional HHs with the Elite (or eLink) as the master interface with the track.

To interface directly with an app on a HH without using RM you would need some form of plug in dongle to get the app speaking to the Elite/eLink, which then sends the DCC commands to the track.

Using such a dongle interface device, then it may then be possible to have an Elite conveniently at either end of a long layout, but not at present.

[ColinB]

It is possible but Hornby would have to add some software to the Elite. You can buy wireless dongles so it could be done, all the remote commands are available to RM so no reason than they could not be used by an external app, but Hornby would still need to write some software inside the Elite to handle the wireless dongle. To be quite honest if you want that functionality you would be better off with a different DCC controller. The Elite is great at programming decoders its only bad point is the lack of an "enter key". Using the press function on the rotary controller is a bad choice as frequently as you press to enter a number it increments or decrements by one occasionally, as the rotary function moves slightly. I have a layout with 3 individual loops and I found the Elite's two channel functionality a pain. I eventually bought a Digikeijs controller after watching a "YouTube" video from a New Zealander who had used an Elite and was singing the praises of the Digikeijs. I must admit I was not disappointed, it also talks wirelessly to a mobile app although the main box does need to be connected to a PC. It means I can control as many trains as I want via the PC and one via the mobile phone app.

[wapples]

Well first & foremost I prefer to use MAC but im stuck with the PC world because TADA there we are. So programs now being called Apps we have Apple to thank for leading us there. How snazzy would it be if there was simply an ADD on we physically connected to the elite via the RJ12 socket that was also I don't know a WIFI/BT adapter and we could download an app and bring the SIMPLICITY of controller to a walkabout system. I mean it in the 'SIMPLE COST EFFECTIVE WAY' that Hornby does. Pro users will be committed with ROCO/DIGI etc and pip pip hooray for them but seems that the simplicity of the hobby still as an untapped market. Hornby have done what they have done for years and do a good job. but how is it for all the evolution a PLUG and play turnout motor is still not all it could be. Yes better and DCC concepts have done wonders but and PECO's new twist loc thing is good an getting simpler but still from looks is intimidating and you just don't take a signal and plug it in. (RAMBLING)

So regarding RM even the simplest layout seems ridiculous to be viewed on X2 4K screens. so much wasted space. It feels ordinary to use and PROS will be doing something else. It just feels like for all the tech that has happened Hornby just said that will do. Maybe at least ensure the software is updated to run on something a little more swish than windows XP so i coin the expression APP because you can see it now. I mean even some updated Hornby track cad software for designing while your stuck in a waiting room you can noodle around on your device. Seems a logical but I was waiting for a HORNBY Series of Apps some 10 years ago as a way of drawing new blood into the hobby. But i guess thats where their Jr. series is off too. Just be nice since the little ones get use to this nifty remote control to step up to a smart phone or device and do it with the 'real deal' HO/OO locos their parents maybe playing with. Sorry way off topic Im just saying look at the complexity other controllers and modules for them have available. We have a great controller that I am still convinced can do so much more than the 1% I use. Bless.

[wapples]

Well first & foremost I prefer to use MAC but im stuck with the PC world because TADA there we are. So programs now being called Apps we have Apple to thank for leading us there. How snazzy would it be if there was simply an ADD on we physically connected to the elite via the RJ12 socket that was also I don't know a WIFI/BT adapter and we could download an app and bring the SIMPLICITY of controller to a walkabout system. I mean it in the 'SIMPLE COST EFFECTIVE WAY' that Hornby does. Pro users will be committed with ROCO/DIGI etc and pip pip hooray for them but seems that the simplicity of the hobby still as an untapped market. Hornby have done what they have done for years and do a good job. but how is it for all the evolution a PLUG and play turnout motor is still not all it could be. Yes better and DCC concepts have done wonders but and PECO's new twist loc thing is good an getting simpler but still from looks is intimidating and you just don't take a signal and plug it in. (RAMBLING)

So regarding RM even the simplest layout seems ridiculous to be viewed on X2 4K screens. so much wasted space. It feels ordinary to use and PROS will be doing something else. It just feels like for all the tech that has happened Hornby just said that will do. Maybe at least ensure the software is updated to run on something a little more swish than windows XP so i coin the expression APP because you can see it now. I mean even some updated Hornby track cad software for designing while your stuck in a waiting room you can noodle around on your device. Seems a logical but I was waiting for a HORNBY Series of Apps some 10 years ago as a way of drawing new blood into the hobby. But i guess thats where their Jr. series is off too. Just be nice since the little ones get use to this nifty remote control to step up to a smart phone or device and do it with the 'real deal' HO/OO locos their parents maybe playing with. Sorry way off topic Im just saying look at the complexity other controllers and modules for them have available. We have a great controller that I am still convinced can do so much more than the 1% I use. Bless.

[96RAF]

@wapples

That is all possible.

The nearest we got to such an adapter was the cancelled SelectaLink adapter cable, which hard wired the RJ socket to USB on a PC, so that it could be used with RM; so why not a plug in radio adapter so the controller can talk to phone or tablet.

Hornby came close with their HM6000 app based bluetooth analogue control system.

[ColinB]

I just get the opinion that Hornby once had a decent software engineer that developed all the DCC equipment.They have left or retired, so all that happens is that bug fixes are implemented. Seen it happen with many of old projects when someone moved departments or in the final case retired. As I said previously the Elite and Select were developed years ago, so probably difficult to do major enhancements (micro memory size) so Hornby do as little changes as possible. Then there is what we used to call the "kerplunk" effect where you add code to software which you think you understand but don't, so the whole lot just crashes, so you stick to easy fixes. That probably explains why RM doesn't get updated. Hornby are more focused on making locos, so I doubt upgrades to their DCC controllers are a priority. I find the Elite is really useful for its easy menus in the programming mode, but once you get to the running of the locos, it is a bit dated and given the latest price very expensive for what it is.

[rpjallan]

I had a similar comment in another Topic...

https://uk.hornby.com/community/forum/elink-and-rm-back-in-stock-at-discounted-price-324272?ccm_paging_p=1#end-of-replies

[96RAF]

@colin

You are spot on ref the hardware, the current controllers are strapped for finite memory and it is down to brilliance of the back shop boffins (same guy and still there) who designed the hardware electronics and writes the firmware that Hornby has been able to streamline the code to add extra features such as programming of CVs by the Select and to overcome obsolescence of parts, and to cater for updated compilers, etc. Also bearing in mind that as these controllers were launched circa 2004/2005, I think they are doing well to still be competitive.

As for the resident Hornby DCC engineer he is still at Margate and I have worked with him since 2006, however like me he is cracking on a bit but he does have a very capable replacement already in post for if and when he decides to fully retire.

RM as we well know is written (2011-ish ?) and supported by a sub-contractor not by Hornby direct. Hornby of course can now call upon any software companies within the Phoenix holding group that finances HH, say for forum and web-site, etc.

There are obviously future developments in the pipeline that I know about (no company product development stands still) and some of these I even have in hand for testing, but I cannot talk about them openly so you will all have to continue with your speculations for now.

[ColinB]

I must admit in my case, I took an alternative route. Whatever Hornby have in the pipeline would have to be incredibly good for me to even consider it. I am surprised though that Hornby haven't just updated the processors, it used to take about a couple of days to a week to change processor and considering a new type would be cheaper than the old one it would be a cost saving. Trouble is Hornby have virtually priced themselves out of the market. Unfortunately for them their competitors didn't increase their prices by as much as they did. It doesn't help when a major reviewer keeps buying discount new locos with duff motors.

[rpjallan]

There are obviously future developments in the pipeline that I know about (no company product development stands still) and some of these I even have in hand for testing, but I cannot talk about them openly so you will all have to continue with your speculations for now.

 

 

Any chance you can hurry them up a bit! With people such as ColinB (among many others) jumping ship, there will be few customers left to make use of the "new stuff". I am on a few other model railway forums & also belong to a club & (other than this forum) I don't know anyone else who is using Hornby DCC gear...

[96RAF]

@rpj

Recently seen in the papers.

Note the comment about ...boosting digital sales...Does he mean DCC or on line selling.

[ellocoloco]

Is that article also hinting that the next Dublo reboot will be the 8F???

I would guess digital sales but any journalism lazy enough to use that picture cannot really be relied on. Must have been a slow day in the office.

[Deepfat]

Too late the hero.

as @RAF96 will know I was a huge fan of Elite/Railmaster but I outgrew it when I realised I needed detection if I wanted to run more than a couple if trains on my own. Railmaster always touted detection and never delivered. TTS sound was a great idea but not expanded on as well.

Finally standards - my detection is from one firm, the controller from another running software from a third supplier and it all works along with loconet aware auto reversing switches. All of these companies compete to a certain extent but like we standardise on scale the market is bigger because actually it is easier to add/change rather than feeling locked in. I have actually managed to use my Elite with other software and actually it works better in some ways than RailMaster.

Of course you get what you pay for but having spent 5K on rolling stock it seemed sensible to layout 2K for a state of the art detection system running modern software.

So I am sad not to be using Hornby, but I guess DCC is just a hobby for them as it is for me. and now I have a couple Elites gathering dust in loft

[Brew Man]

I bet someone will buy them from you given the ongoing delays in delivering new stock.

[ColinB]

Well 96RAF I suppose you noticed that was an old Hornby Dublo layout, I am not sure the article is a bit out of date, last year it was probably right, not so sure about the present. Going Digital generally refers to selling over the web which sounds bad news for Model Shops. From what I was reading on RMWEB yesterday it appears Hornby are cutting out the Model Shops even those with tier 1 status.

[96RAF]

@colin

Hornby would be crazy to give model shops the boot and rely solely on in house sales. Folk love to walk into a model shop and look at stuff, then buy a train set and fetch it home.

I wait with baited breath for any significant development of DCC which has been stagnant for almost 2 decades. A definite step change is due.

@deepfat

A few of us on here are running forum user Stingrays hand written RM-like operating system with very basic loco detection by way of magnet equipped locos activating reed switches, which talk to the PC running the software by way of a cheap no drivers needed game controller type switch box. Auto-ops is by way of simple plain English script programs which control a loco from A to B, B to C, C to etc. These individual routing programs can then be linked together in a running schedule to allow interlocked events whereby one loco is prevented from entering a section used by another loco and so on, ditto points operation is interlocked to prevent bad routing. £50 was the hardware cost for a decent sized layout (1 x switch box and 50 x reed switches) with the software being free for the guys helping develop it towards user acceptance testing. It works very well and shows what RM could be if Hornby would get their corporate finger out and release LD.

[ColinB]

I know 96RAF, I thought the same but I am only repeating what I read. I think Hornby are a bit naïve if they think they can do that, it is a big difference selling a few locos from your website compared to selling everything.