TT:120 DCC - Decoders and Layout Wiring

[TheDonald]

Hello all,

I should think I inhabit the very centre of the target that Hornby were aiming for while developing their plan to enter the world of TT - had some OO stuff when I was a kid (still have it, in fact) but, as an adult, have never had the space to build a worthwhile layout with it (despite very much wanting to).

As such, I have no experience with DCC but would like to build my TT:120 layout with it in place. We know that all locos are DCC ready so the first of what will likely be many questions from me on the subject is: Will existing decoders be suitable or are we waiting on TT specific ones?

While I'm at it, I understand that to get the best out of DCC it is preferable to have all sections of track powered at all times. Given that this is my first "proper" layout, I have no burning desire to stray from Hornby's track system or take up recreational soldering if I can avoid it... Is the purpose of Hornby's "point clips" to ensure that e.g. sidings are powered even when a point is set to the other route?

*Actual questions in bold due to my propensity to waffle.

Cheers!

[See See Rider]

Hi there.

I can answer your first question. No - you should wait for new TT specific decoder products to be announced. I too plan to fit any Hornby TT loco I purchase with a DCC + Sound decoder. I get the impression it will be some time before the decoders are available. So DC it is for some time.

RDS Mod Note: See the post by 96RAF below.

[96RAF]

Q1. Contrary to Thomas’ advice there is no specific TT:120 decoder, any Next 18 decoder will be suitable - sound or non sound. Hornby has a new range of decoders in work to support their new OO and TT locos and they will be announced when they are ready, trust me.

Q2. Yes - Point clips will render a layout all live but they should only be relied on to power the odd siding past a point and not a fan of sidings or a storage yard or extensive secondary loops, etc from a single power track/power clip.

If the layout becomes that complex then a proper power bus is the norm. There are several ways to get round soldering, but at some stage you need to connect dropper wires to the rails, however it really is a simple art to learn. There is a handy guide in the forum General Discussion section. Soldering stations can be bought cheaply from the likes of Lidl or Aldi to practice with.

[RDS]

The TT:120 Loco's as you say are all DCC Ready, with an 18-Pin socket. Most existing Decoders I think are 4, 6, 8 or 21 pin. Hornby do not as yet produce an 18-pin Decoder but there are others on the market.

With DCC it is essential to have all track sections powered all the time and the Point clips are for exactly that purpose.

[RDS]

@Thomas

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[See See Rider]

Q1. Contrary to Thomas’ advice there is no specific TT:120 decoder, any Next 18 decoder will be suitable - sound or non sound.

 

 

Yes, understood as a general principal - but thinking of Hornby decoders specifically (Which I think the original question is about) - I don't think Hornby has any such listed yet.

 

 

[TheDonald]

Thanks for the speedy replies!

I guess the main thing I was thinking about with the decoders (and speakers should I go down the sound route) was size. But then these things fit inside N gauge models, so it should be fine!

[96RAF]

Q1. Contrary to Thomas’ advice there is no specific TT:120 decoder, any Next 18 decoder will be suitable - sound or non sound.

Yes, understood as a general principal - but thinking of Hornby decoders specifically (Which I think the original question is about) - I don't think Hornby has any such listed yet.

 

 

As stated by RDS’ post...and as qualified by my post saying that such decoders are in the system and will be launched when they are ready.

Given the locos are not due until Q1 next year earliest then there is time for the decoders to pop up.

@The Donald - you will probably find the locos either come with a speaker already included or at least with a mounting for a speaker which may simply plug into the decoder.

[Simmo009]

I have a 00 Bachmann J72 fitted with Next18 sound decoder. I couldn't believe how small it was compared to the usual 8 and 21 pin units. I am sure these will fit in TT:120 scale locomotives, well the larger ones at least. And sugarcube speakers are wonderfully small too. There is a slot provided for them in the tender.

[Fishmanoz]

Might I suggest adding to this title - Decoders and Layout Wiring.

I might also suggest that, given we are in the TT:120 forum, it’s not necessary to start a title with that description but, on reflection, one title suggestion per day is enough.

[Fishmanoz]

Then on decoders themselves for TT - if I were to think about promised Hornby Next18 decoders versus those already in the market place, a little history is informative:

• the stock standard 8249 which has been around for a long time was Hornby’s second attempt at such a decoder, the first having significant limitations
• Hornby TTS (Twin Track Sound) decoders have proven themselves a good value for money product in the sound market but it has taken some years to be so. In the interim, there were significant reliability issues and a firmware bug before the product as we see it today. And that an 8249 derivative with sound added.
• from the features Rob has mentioned, it is most unlikely Hornby Next18 will be 8249-based. Therefore we are talking development of a new electronic and firmware design using modern more miniaturized components. In an ideal world, Hornby will solve all the development speed bumps before release, but ….

My conclusion - keep an aye on the full Next18 market for DCC options, sound and non-sound.

[Les1952]

I suspect that Hornby's sound will be TTS- which is fine for diesels but totally unrealistic for steam as the exhaust beats don't match up to the wheel revolutions.

An A4 should "chuff" SIX times for every revolution of the driving wheels. Can this be set up in TTS? No.

Mine will have an extra £100 or so spent on it to get a sound chip that actually sounds like an A4.

[david_watts1]

Mine will have an extra £100 or so spent on it to get a sound chip that actually sounds like an A4.

 

 

Just wondering on why everyone one thinks DCC is so amazing when you imply it's going to cost me £1100 for sound decoders for the 11 era 3,4 and 5 locomotives I want plus a decent power controller (NCE powercab) at about £250.

 

 

[Fishmanoz]

Cheaper and more capable would be eLink/RM and you only need one.

How many sections will you have to divide your DC layout into to have anything like individual control of 11 locos, and how many DC controllers at what cost?

With simpler setups, DCC benefits are less although so too is the price premium. For a layout with 11 locos, DCC really comes into its own on performance.

[96RAF]

@les1952

You obviously either did not read or did not take note of both mine and Fishy’s comments on the previous page about next generation TTS being quite unlike the current offering, so I will repeat in précis .. .

A new range of decoders is required for both 00 (21-pin) and TT:120 (N18), the former to provide the necessary outputs to run their steam generator and all to provide various pin configurations across the range of sound and non-sound decoders.

Much has been said by Hornby at recent shows about steam chuff rate synching and even talk of an optical trigger mechanism for exact matching, thus proving the new steam decoders will have to be much different from the current ones.

As stated these decoders will be of a much higher spec than the old R8249 and TTS derivatives.

You are free of course to spend your money as and where you please but I like the new A4 and other sound decoders I have on test, which I am told will be competitively priced like TTS was, hence my advice to gen-pop would be hang onto your money for now.

[Fishmanoz]

Dog and pony show Rob, but few have noticed.

[TheDonald]

Thank you to all you experienced heads for your input.

[david_watts1]

Cheaper and more capable would be eLink/RM and you only need one.

How many sections will you have to divide your DC layout into to have anything like individual control of 11 locos, and how many DC controllers at what cost?

With simpler setups, DCC benefits are less although so too is the price premium. For a layout with 11 locos, DCC really comes into its own on performance.

After looking at youtube videos, if I'm going to go digital then the NCE powercab seems to be the best option. I might not be able to have 11 locos running on the track at once, but they will all need chipping. I currently can run 6, I have 2 Gaugemaster DS units and a Hornby HM2000. I think I'll wait for reviews on the new Hornby TTS chips before converting to digital.