HM7000 System

[M. Matthews]

So let me get this straight… I can now take my DCC locos and put them on my clubs DC layout and all I need is the Bluetooth chips and HM7000 app?

[dBerriff]

That is how it looks. An interesting development and I am keen to learn more about it.

Edit:

• but for analogue power supply see next comment.
• useful read: https://uk.hornby.com/hm7000/faqs

[96RAF]

You can because the clubs layout is only supplying power for the new decoders, BUT the club layout has to be kept powered above the boot up voltage of the decoder else it will shut down same as a regular DCC decoder and lose connection with the App.

[dBerriff]

From the FAQs:

What if I already own Non-BLE decoders?

You have the option to purchase the HM7040 - Legacy Dongle that can be plugged into your Elite / Select controller. This will allow for HM | DCC app control of all your previous non-Bluetooth decoders.

The dongle costs £39.99 and it sounds as if that gives you Bluetooth control of your Elite or Select. I wonder if that is going to need a firmware update?

[96RAF]

@dB

The dongle works fine with Select and Elite at current latest revisions.

App commands are passed by the dongle to the Elite/Select to legacy decoders.

The dongle can have unlimited legacy decoders assigned to its control.

At present the App will control accessories using the HM6010 but work is in hand for the dongle to control R8247 acc decoders.

Any firmware revisions needed for the dongle (and HM7000 decoders) as time passes can be done through the App.

[Deem]

At this stage I think it will be just idea's or question's we will be sharing until we have the actual product in hand to experience the HM7000.

The most intriguing thing for me is HM7000 talks directly to decoder.

However (correct me if I am wrong) Loco still need power, which can be delivered either using your existing Controller with R7326 Bluetooth Dongle for older decoders or newer decoders can get power from the track but command via app from HM7000.

Or New Power supply R7337 4 AMP can supply power to loco and new decoders.

Issue I can see is new decoders will work fine with new power supply, however for older decoder to work one would still need the existing controller with Bluetooth Dongle, Am I correct?

Existing Controller will still send the command received from HM7000 via Bluetooth Dongle via track to old decoders? AM I correct in assuming this?

[rpjallan]

The dongle works fine with Select and Elite at current latest revisions.

App commands are passed by the dongle to the Elite/Select to legacy decoders.

The dongle can have unlimited legacy decoders assigned to its control.

 

 

So, is there any chance of it working in the other direction - Railmaster or stand alone Elite/Select controlling a loco with one of the new Bluetooth decoders fitted via the dongle & phone/tablet?

As I see it, this is just for loco control? It has an awful long way to go to give the functionality of Railmaster. If the two can be used together that is fine. In my case, I have a good desktop computer, a good laptop (running Railmaster) & a good phone (which has the Railmaster mobile app installed). I rarely use the phone because of the small screen. I neither need nor want a tablet.

So, it will be interesting to see how this develops. I did notice, however, there is absolutely no mention whatsoever of Railmaster in any of the blurb to date. Make of that what you will...

[96RAF]

At this stage I think it will be just idea's or question's we will be sharing until we have the actual product in hand to experience the HM7000.

I have been testing this for over a year, so I am able to answer questions, as can Hornby Customer Care.

The most intriguing thing for me is HM7000 talks directly to decoder.

Yes it does via Bluetooth.

However (correct me if I am wrong) Loco still need power, which can be delivered either using your existing Controller with R7326 Bluetooth Dongle for older decoders or newer decoders can get power from the track but command via app from HM7000.

The track must be powered above a specific voltage to boot the decoder. This track power can be DCC, DC from a analogue controller turned up or from a PSU direct to the travks using an adapter cable. Which method you use depends upon what elese you want to have under control on your track.

Or New Power supply R7337 4 AMP can supply power to loco and new decoders.

This is the same as the old 4-Amp PSU, or you can use any 12-15v PSU.

Issue I can see is new decoders will work fine with new power supply, however for older decoder to work one would still need the existing controller with Bluetooth Dongle, Am I correct?

Correct. To control legacy DCC decoders from the App you need a DCC controller and the 7040 dongle as an interface.

Existing Controller will still send the command received from HM7000 via Bluetooth Dongle via track to old decoders? AM I correct in assuming this?

Correct. If you wish to control legacy decoders from the App, else use the DCC controller direct.

 

 

 

 

[SteveM6]

Admittedly it’s early in the morning and detailed info is a bit thin on the ground (and I may quite possibly have missed something) but does this HM7000 announcement mean that Hornby has abandoned their ‘traditional’ TTS decoders?

i couldn’t see any mention of any new/restocked TTS decoders or any TTS versions of 21 pin or Next18 decoders.

It seems sounds are available using the new Bluetooth decoders but for that to work I would have to abandon my existing non Hornby DCC controllers and invest in the HM7000? Or will the dongle thingy connect to other makes of controller? Surely there should be some degree of NMRA compliance to ensure cross-brand compatibility?

It also begs the question of what type of decoder will be prefitted to the steam & sound locos? If it is one of these new ones, will all the extra ‘toys’ work on a non HM7000 layout?

No doubt things will become clearer over the coming months but at this stage I have some severe doubts as to the viability of this change.

[Deem]

Thanks Rob for clearing this for me.

Interesting thing for me is, one can have DC layout and install newer sound or standard decoders into loco, use them with HM7000 on same layout.

Run DC loco and when required just leave the dc loco on track and run only dcc decoders or parallel with HM7000? Am i correct?

[Bulleidboy]

I'm not sure whether I will need it, but I have ordered the R7326 HM7040 Legacy Dongle. As an Elite user it might be required and an item that I am sure will disappear off the shelves very quickly.

[dBerriff]

96RAF: thank you for the feedback and the more I read about this, the better it looks. It is reassuring to learn that is has been in test for over a year.

[M. Matthews]

I wonder if it’s a possibility that on board power could be supplied and then operate without any power to the track at all?

[SteveM6]

I’ve found some more info on another forum but it raises more questions than answers.

As I understand it all I need to get a loco working is 15v to the track, the app on a phone and a new ‘white’ or BLE decoder in the loco.

The track power can either be direct from the 15v wall wart transformer or via an existing Elite controller.

If I want to control a loco that has an existing non BLE decoder, I need a ‘legacy dongle’ to plug into the Elite with the app and the Elite ‘talking’ to each other to convert signals from the app into ‘standard’ DCC commands to the non BLE locos via the track.

But, what if you don’t have an Elite?

Will HM7000/BLE decoders work if the track is powered via say the Prodigy or Powercab controllers?

If it does then will either of those controllers still control the non BLE locos ie will both systems work at the same time on the same track?

Can the app be used to set the sound files on a BLE controller but still have that loco controlled by an alternative DCC controller? I’d rather only use one controller to control the layout and, to be honest, I’d rather not use an app for control although I am happy to use an app as a programming device.

Just the first batch of many questions to come.

[gilbo2]

Is there an upgrade path to HM7000 if you have an elink? It seems the new 'legacy' dongle only works with elite or select?

[Fishmanoz]

Steve, all of that is covered in the HM 7000 info in the announcements with the short answers being;

• yes, you can run it with 15 volt DC to the track but not directly, via the track adaptor which is part of the range just released
• yes, you can program a loco with BLE decoder via the App then run it via the App or via another controller, with that controller providing all the track power (cannot connect DC and DCC to the track at the same time)

DG - you can’t put the dongle in an eLink - no Xpressnet port. But you can use the eLink to power the track and run new decoders via the App and continue to operate locos with older decoders via RM/eLink. You’ll just need to have your throttles split between the App and RM.

[gilbo2]

Thanks Fishmanoz, understood. I hope in the future they will develop a version of HM7000 that will work on a laptop/PC with elink. All "legacy" hardware already exists (Bluetooth / comms with elink etc), just needs the software to enable it all. Railmaster2 ;-)

[96RAF]

I’ve found some more info on another forum but it raises more questions than answers.

As I understand it all I need to get a loco working is 15v to the track, the app on a phone and a new ‘white’ or BLE decoder in the loco.

Correct - under App controlled BLE mode.

The track power can either be direct from the 15v wall wart transformer or via an existing Elite controller.

Correct - the track only has to have decoder boot up voltage applied but 12-15v is good. Use the adapter cable.

If I want to control a loco that has an existing non BLE decoder, I need a ‘legacy dongle’ to plug into the Elite with the app and the Elite ‘talking’ to each other to convert signals from the app into ‘standard’ DCC commands to the non BLE locos via the track.

Correct - the HM7040 translates App to Dcc via the Elite/Select Xpressnet bus.

But, what if you don’t have an Elite?

It works with a Select and an alien controller with native Xpressnet bus, like Z21 and maybe others using the R845 (?) bus.

Will HM7000/BLE decoders work if the track is powered via say the Prodigy or Powercab controllers?

Yes - in BLE mode from the App. Legacy decoder will work direct from an alien controller.

If it does then will either of those controllers still control the non BLE locos ie will both systems work at the same time on the same track?

Yes

Can the app be used to set the sound files on a BLE controller but still have that loco controlled by an alternative DCC controller? I’d rather only use one controller to control the layout and, to be honest, I’d rather not use an app for control although I am happy to use an app as a programming device.

Yes - but the BLE decoder has to be set to DCC mode in CV12.

Just the first batch of many questions to come.

 

 

 

 

[Fishmanoz]

Steve, see my edit on my first dot point re 15 volt supply - now consistent with Rob's answers immediately above.

[96RAF]

I hope in the future they will develop a version of HM7000 that will work on a laptop/PC with elink. All "legacy" hardware already exists (Bluetooth / comms with elink etc), just needs the software to enable it all. Railmaster2 ;-)

 

 

Not exactly correct. eLink does not have Bluetooth comms. These will have to be provided via the dongle.

The eLink can be converted for dongle use but requires physical modification to add electronic components, an Xpressnet socket and updated firmware, then the 7040 dongle can be used as an interface.

I converted my eLink as part of the development testing but the idea was canned before I got the firmware updated.

[TezzaG]

Loads of really good questions on here, watching and monitoring with interest. I think the new system announcement is really exciting and the next step for DCC. I will be ordering the dongle that plugs into the Elite to control my existing DCC/TTS trains from the app. I am assuming from what I've read, that I can do that and then add any new type decoders to new or existing trains and run them all at the same time, from the same system.

[gilbo2]

96RAF, that's not what I was meaning. A PC/Laptop (usually) already has a bluetooth adapter which could be used for comms with the new HM7000 decoders and already talks to elink via USB for legacy DCC. Just needs a software wizard to recreate the iOS version to run on a PC and add elink protocols. No dongle or mods to elink would be required.

Or put another way, take Railmaster which already works with 'legacy' dcc / elink and patch it to have the ability to use the PC's bluetooth adapter to talk to the new decoders. Also an opportunity to revamp Railmaster ;-)

[SteveM6]

Thanks Rob.

Lets see if I have got this right.

I run my layout as usual via a Prodigy controller - no change. I put a new ‘white’ decoder in a loco and use the HM7000 app to set the usual CV parameters for address, acceleration, deceleration etc but additionally set CV12 to DCC mode and choose a sound file from the app.

I can then place the loco on the layout and use my Prodigy to control it as before, including the selection of sounds?

During the set up phase, does voltage to the decoder need to be DC or DCC? The pictures I have seen seem to indicate that the power to the track via a cable and the track connector is DC yet later pictures show the Elite connected which will be the DCC wave form ie similar to 15v AC.

if initial set up requires DC current a simple programming track is needed - or am I overthinking this?

[SteveM6]

Steve, see my edit on my first dot point re 15 volt supply - now consistent with Rob's answers immediately above.

 

 

The adapter cable is interesting - I can see that it plugs into a track connector section but the insistence that the cable is used suggests that it modifies the power supply. Does it change the DC output into a form of AC?

 

 

Just expanding my last few questions, would it make sense to set up a programming track using the adapter cable to set up the decoder via the app and before transferring the loco to a layout controlled by an alien DCC system and not the app?

[null_null29]

What is the reliable range of the control from loco/decoder to smartphone?

If the loco/decoder goes out of range, does it just keep going and does it automatically reconnect and come back under control when it comes back into range?

What protocol is used over the bluetooth? Is it straight bog standard DCC so that other manufacturesr/hobbists can provide their own handsets, or some proprietary format? A propriatary format would make sence to get over the 'broadcast only' nature of DCC control, thus quickly draining handset battery life. Handests with real tactile control knobs could be needed in the future (they can be used while concentrating on the train and not having to look at a screen and concentrate on that) and also to get over the problem of not being able to read a smartphone/tablet screen in bright (sun)light. Would Hornby provide a handset in the future that could be used instead of a smartphone/tablet?

Will standalone accessory decoders with bluetooth be available for controlling points/lights/uncouplers etc?

Thanking you in advance for answers/comments on my questions. I'm sure there are other things I will want to ask in the future. It seems like a good system good on Hornby for bringing this out.