TT120 for Australia

[Slats]

The issue for me first and foremost is product access, and this extends to other products too, like Airfix for example. There’s been a long-held excuse that the cost of doing business via freight etc drives up the cost of the final product in Australia. Whilst there is an element of that, the biggest cost is the exclusive rights deal forces retailers here to have limited and very expensive products on their shelf. Retailers have little to no margin to compete amongst themselves and this makes it hard for them to hold the entire stock of a range. SMS are also in business to make money and are taking their cut, so this by-in large means that Australians pay more for limited goods in a prolonged timeframe. I don’t blame retailers here for having limited stock, if there is not much in it for them. Perhaps the UK retailers who are dealing with Hornby direct (no middle agency like SMS taking a cut), means that they can stock more and make more?

Going by what the retailers list here as out of stock showing a price, my UK order that I have just done was still cheaper – after freight, and after I pay GST (like VAT) on the order this end too. 

I could only dream of getting a discount like what has been mentioned through the club etc, but after a while, the prospect of discounts to me diminishes, and access to the product becomes more important. The thing I really don’t like is I’m locked out of all the club information for forthcoming product developments. I’m just grateful there is a very kind and supportive community that can help fill in the blanks.

[Aussie Fred]

And this whole conversation is why I declined going down the TT120 path and now are so far into the 00 hobby, it would be a waste of thousands to go to anything else. And so far as SMS service is concerned .......

[Fishmanoz]

(As others have stated, unless there is a complete block on all TT:120 delivery to Australia, how else do you prevent someone simply purchasing a membership using a non-Australian address and then changing their address after membership purchase?)

 

 

LT, I had/have an Aust address on my membership but have subsequently added a UK address that I am using for TT:120 deliveries. This hasn’t affected the club magazine delivery which is still coming to Aust.

So I’m assuming changing your address doesn’t affect orders already placed. It would seem the only way to change an existing delivery address is to cancel and re-order.

[Fishmanoz]

… the exclusive rights deal forces retailers here to have limited and very expensive products on their shelf. Retailers have little to no margin to compete amongst themselves and this makes it hard for them to hold the entire stock of a range…… I don’t blame retailers here for having limited stock, if there is not much in it for them. 

 

 

Slats, there is still some price competition. What I’ve found is Hobbyco cheapest (was also last into the market), Frontline next then Metro most expensive. Haven’t looked further.

And I believe current stock limitations are because that’s all that’s left from the first shipment, and when that will be rectified by a second and more expensive delivery is anyone’s guess.

[LTSR_NSE]

@Fishy - I completely agree that there is no way of changing a delivery address for an existing order (apart from possibly phoning customer services) - but I wasn’t suggesting doing that.

I was referring to a scenario the exact opposite of what you did - (purchase membership using non-Australian address, then change account to Australian address, then place TT:120 orders).

If the Hornby website allowed any TT:120 deliveries to Australia, it would have to be able to specifically prevent that scenario. Whereas simply preventing all TT:120 deliveries to Australia is a very blunt (but effective) instrument.

@Slats mentions that product access to other ranges (e.g. Airfix) is restricted to/from Australian retailers - is this due to SMS exclusivity? (if so it would add weight to my suggestion that SMS exclusivity existed prior to TT:120 & the only difference was that TT:120 wasn’t initially available from other international retailers.)

[Going Spare]

I have no way of knowing for certain, but the existence of this agreement seems to have caught Hornby out very soon after the launch of TT120 so I suspect it was in force before TT120 came on the scene and is therefore likely to apply to all Hornby group products. If it had been negotiated as part of the TT120 launch, it would have been fresh in Hornby minds.

[Slats]

@Going Spare

According to the SMS website they are the Hornby distributors - but as others have said you can order non TT stuff through Hornby online in the UK, and I have certainly got Airfix that way too previously.

With the commencement of willing retailers in the UK selling to me, I finally have a supply of things inbound that were never in stock in Australia at all!

The thing I really resent about this is that Australia is the only nation where we can't be TT members!! Why we can't pay the fee and join, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's not like SMS in being the Monopoly supplier of bugga all TT was ever going to administer the TT club for Hornby in Australia so this is one area that Aussies are actively discriminated against by Hornby.

Anyway I running the blockade!! Stuff em!

[JohnE1707822967]

Myself and another member reported SMS to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission for abusing their market power and forcing prices up 50% over Hornby’s UK rrp.

I haven’t seen any action from the ACCC so far, but the whole shemozzle made me sever my 50 year relationship with Hornby (I switched to N scale).

[Fishmanoz]

I don’t believe that Hornby intended this situation, rather it was likely ignorance or incompetence by the legal department in extending their existing wholesale arrangement with SMS or implementing a new TT one.

My reason for thinking this? They started out taking online orders then abruptly stopped. I got my membership and an Easterner set orders in before they stopped, and they honoured both.

I likely had the first TT setup in Australia as a result, and maybe the first digital Scotsman via a UK address. Slow progress since unfortunately, been very busy.

[Richard-370171]

Hi All, first post here, I'm from near Parramatta, Sydney. I have only found out about TT scale a couple of days ago, long story short I was going to build a OO layout 10 years ago, with kids and stuff getting in the way I'm now keen on starting up again except the space I had before is gone. My first thought was N gauge but then I came across TT:120, with is great for me as my interest is British steam. There is a great store near me, but stock is very limited and the prices against the UK (including shipping) is a joke. The sets are $50 over the odds and it seems Australia is treasure island again. Then I found this thread and it's so disappointing, SMS is a company I have come across before and I see things haven't improved. I'm the customer that Hornby is chasing for TT scale as I'm not committed to any scale and would benefit from the smaller scale. But being locked out of overseas purchasing and local store not being stocked correctly is forcing me to go N scale where the choices are huge! Surely with the FTA last March this agreement is anti-competitive and anti-consumer, but just think about this it making me less keen to start up with Hornby.

Richard

[SMR248]

Slightly OT but, to me, this partially explains why Hornby haven't allowed Hattons to sell TT120 - they would willingly sell to Australia which would upset this rather "strange" arrangement.

I do hope that this situation gets resolved. I assume that Australia is potentially quite a large market for TT so ultimately this is detrimental for all potential TT modellers (and Hornby).

[96RAF]

Write to Marketing about it. Give them your views first hand. All the moderators can do is pass your opinions on second hand.

[Silver Fox 17]

As there are a few retailers now stocking the products could you not buy direct from them? I doubt they will come under any agreement Hornby has with SMS.

Plus, with no discounts now (apart from those who joined until Jan this year) the stockists are probably cheaper.

[Fishmanoz]

Hi Richard, I can sympathise with you for sure. I’m a little east of you, Inner West (of Sydney). And I’m a 60 yr plus customer of Hobbyco who are now one of the cheaper TT:120 retailers.

I’m one of the luckier Aust TT people:

• I took out Club membership on Day 2, with my Aust address, before Hornby realised their SMS deal precluded even this
• I pre-ordered the Easterner set, again before Hornby realised the SMS limitations. Hornby honoured the order and, as a result, on delivery I may have been the first in Aust with TT, maybe by weeks or months
• I now have an alternative UK address so have continued purchases that way then paid for shipping to Aust, as well as buying some items direct here from 2 retailers. My last before the 15% discount expired is a digital HST on pre-order with Hornby. The points from that purchase may entice me to buy again, but that’s a long way off.
• Now that my 15% discount free membership has expired, I can now compare prices with UK retailers too. But Aust prices aren’t too bad, apart from the sets which remain horrendously expensive.

My point - you have options. Do lots of research before ordering.

I did report SMS and Hornby to the ACCC but didn’t follow up. Someone else has. I suggest you do the online form thing if inclined, can’t do any harm.

[SMR248]

Thanks 96RAF,

Yes I'll do that.

In an ideal world I would have a good local model shop that stocked TT but I don't so i now use Hattons (mainly to buy things in other scales, obviously) and normally put things in my trunk to reduce postage costs (and to reduce the questions about what have I bought this time?).

[Raymund-372320]

Hi I sent msg but never goy a reply, asking if us in Australia could a least have a limited club membership, so we could at least get the TT120 magazine , had no reponse. All retailers have have limited stock of Hornby and Peco TT120 so it really make on sence why we are excluded.

[John-L]

Hi I sent msg but never goy a reply, asking if us in Australia could a least have a limited club membership, so we could at least get the TT120 magazine , had no reponse. All retailers have have limited stock of Hornby and Peco TT120 so it really make on sence why we are excluded.

Have you checked the new free digital version of the membership? I’m sure I read somewhere that it was available globally (because there are no physical items to ship).

the magazine is usually available in the digital members section before my physical copy arrives so I rarely read the paper version.

[Fishmanoz]

I can confirm I have digital membership using my Aust address.