Lubricants

[threelink]

I wonder whether some knowledgeable party can sort out my confusion over 3 in 1 oil. I have read that it has a deleterious effect on plastics, yet these days it comes in a plastic container and I have used it for 50 years or more on Triang and Hornby locos and rolling stock with no discernible ill effect on any plastic component. Back in the day it was recommended by Hornby, admittedly when their locos were predominantly metal. What ingredient in this oil is considered harmful and what is the nature of the damage that it is alleged to cause?

For completeness I should perhaps add that I use Vaseline mixed with 3 in 1 as a gear lubricant and again have seen no ill effects.

[Bulleidboy]

I think you have been lucky - there are various lubricants available for model trains - Labelle's springs to mind - they produce a small kit with a selection of oil and grease. I believe sewing machine oil can be used as it is very thin. Many "normal" oils will thicken up over a period of time.

[P-Henny]

@threelink.

But to be fair, you yourself have stated many times that you buy really old knackered stock and refurbish and restore to working condition, updating wheels and other things as necessary. I assume then that you are not buying more modern stock (say made in the last 5-10 years or so) made with cheaper materials to which the comments about 3:1 are probably more likely aimed at.

Personally, I have no idea how true the oil statments are, as I have only ever used commercial oils formulated specifically for models.

[threelink]

@PH Yes, I do buy old rubbish and renovate it but I also have items that I have owned for decades. It is perfectly true to say that I rarely buy more recent items so if there has been some relatively recent change in the formulation of plastics that renders them susceptible to damage, I will have no experience of it.

@Bulleidboy. I may have been lucky but I am interested to know from what danger luck has protected my models. I have read that 3 in 1 and Vaseline attack plastic and equally I have read that they do not. I am hopelessly confused.

[Rallymatt]

So many variables with lubricants. As a rule mineral oils like 3 in 1 are ok with most metals likely to be found in a HD chassis etc but many household lubricants are not good with most plastics or modern water based paints/varnishes. Avoid things like WD40 like the plague on anything with plastic (car locks etc) it will kill them. Use white grease, WD40 is not a lubricant. Even sewing machine oil is not ideal for many plastics and paints.

[threelink]

Oh dear. I have been doing it wrong for so long. I did use WD40 as a solvent (not a lubricant) until I found that lighter fuel was cheaper, just as effective and left no residue. It's a wonder that any of my models are still in one piece.

Thanks to all for your input - but I am still in the dark as to exactly how oil is said to attack plastic.

[ntpntpntp]

I've not used stuff like 3-in-1 since I was a nipper in the 70s servicing my Triang locos, topping up those fluffy pads around X.04 bearings and applying to brass gears etc. :)

Nowadays I make sure I only use very thin oil marketed as "plastic-safe"( just in case), the smallest possible dose on the end of a pin. For gear teeth I use Labelle 106 white grease with PTFE, and again just the tiniest dot. There a various "kits" of lubricants out there from the likes of Bachmann, Woodland Scenics, Labelle etc.

As an informal "loco doctor" at my club's exhibitions we used to invite the public to bring along "Little Johnny"'s poorly loco and we'd have a go at getting it running, encouraging another happy modeller to remain interested in the hobby :) So often the chassis was dripping with 3-in-1 type of oil and smothered with carpet fluff, so the first thing was always to strip down and clean all that gunk off.

[LTSR_NSE]

@threelink - whenever this topic gets raised, the suggestion is that petroleum/mineral based oils will shorten plastics ‘usable life’ & hasten the tendency towards brittleness.

However I don’t believe links to any scientific studies have ever been provided.

[ntpntpntp]

Google the question and take your pick from the results :) Some manufacturers' compatibility tables say yes it can harm certain plastics, others say it's safe. Some say synthetic oils can also harm some plastics. The same with model railway forum posts.

Some folk say Wahl clipper oil is a good thin oil for our use. I've not tried it as I have enough small bottles to last me a lifetime from model railway brands such as Fleischmann, Faller, Peco.

[threelink]

Hmmm. I think I had better change to something specifically stated to be "plastic friendly", just to be on the safe side. Having said that, the only instance I have ever experienced of plastic being attacked by anything was years ago when I left a plastic container from the old Triang cement/ lime carrying wagon (the one with three grey containers) in a bath of white spirit in an effort to clean off some poorly applied painted weathering. The white spirit softened the plastic so I have not used it since. I have also avoided the use of oven cleaner as a paint stripper on plastic, having read dire warnings on the container about not using it on plastics, and I do know that rust remover eats plastic (yes, I found out the hard way).

Thank you all for your responses.

[96RAF]

3 in 1 and WD-40 contain some oil but also a rust inhibiting agent and freeing agents, generally a solvent like white spirit or paraffin. As time passes the freeing agent evaporates and the residue is old oil and gungey muck. There is a switch cleaner equivalent of WD-40 which is OK to use to free up solidified lubricants on old models, but as always for effect on plastics try on an old body or ask the manufacturer. Their web sites usually have associated data sheets.

[What About The Bee]

The MSDS for 3 in 1 is readily available. Its primary constituent is naphthenic oil, a distillate of natural hydrocarbons.

Labelle oil for model railways also has an MSDS available. The primary constituent is paraffinic oil, a different distillate of natural hydrocarbons than naphthenic oil.

Both naphthenic and paraffinic oils encompass a broad range and do not represent a specific hydrocarbon.

Bee

[What About The Bee]

Hi Three Link

White Spirit is a naphthenic oil, sometimes known as Stoddard's Solvent, Mineral Spirit or Mineral Oil. A slightly more refined distillate, in the same family, is naphtha.

From my wooden boat building days, naphtha will dissolve (is a solvent for) dried asphalt.

No surprise that it would attack some plastics, as there are many formulations of plastic.

By the way, 3 in 1 contains <3% Naphtha.

Bee