Sams Boy Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 https://dccconcepts.us13.list-manage.com/track/click?u=9687385558a1289cf97083ac7&id=b534654d64&e=9cd67a1f54 is this any help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sams Boy Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Edit with more detail….. https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/ae-model-2-wire-stay-alive/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge1965 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) DCC Concepts Version 23mm x 17mm x 6mm Hornby 18mm x 10mm x 7mm. Sizes taken from website, maybe too big for TT120 ?? Edited March 28 by Dodge1965 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, Dodge1965 said: DCC Concepts Version 23mm x 17mm x 6mm Hornby 18mm x 10mm x 7mm. Sizes taken from website, maybe too big for TT120 ?? I glad you did that, I was wondering what the comparative sizing was. Compared to a LaisDCC "stay alive" the Hornby one was pretty big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritInVanCA Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Sorry I started a separate thread on the DCC Concepts one. I'd already done the size comparison but was wondering if since the TT120 models need some modification to fit the Hornby ones these would be no worse. Of course if you use a non-Hornby one and something goes wrong with your decoder your warranty is void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 minute ago, BritInVanCA said: Sorry I started a separate thread on the DCC Concepts one. I'd already done the size comparison but was wondering if since the TT120 models need some modification to fit the Hornby ones these would be no worse. Of course if you use a non-Hornby one and something goes wrong with your decoder your warranty is void. As I said in your other thread how are Hornby going to know. The AE "Stay Alive" has the same connector, so you just remove the "Stay alive" before you send it back. Anyway I really do doubt you would blow the decoder up anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) Does honesty mean anything? Edited March 29 by Rallymatt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 37 minutes ago, Rallymatt said: Does honesty mean anything? To those of us that it does (and don’t wish to risk anything) can simply avoid 3rd party ‘compatible’ equipment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-373700 Posted March 29 Author Share Posted March 29 Well if Hornby had some for sale I'd buy a few .. as it is, these look a perfect alternative and I have ordered ONE for now to test. Cheers Sammy's Boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritInVanCA Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 hour ago, Rallymatt said: Does honesty mean anything? It does to me but equally if I feel it will be used as excuse to dismiss valid claims of defective products that might colour my decision. anyway I’ve probably burnt my bridges now if they check the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 10 hours ago, Darren-373700 said: Well if Hornby had some for sale I'd buy a few .. as it is, these look a perfect alternative and I have ordered ONE for now to test. Cheers Sammy's Boy. Can you let us know if they work, I suspect they will. The big one will be if you can read back CV parameters while in programing mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 26 minutes ago, ColinB said: Can you let us know if they work, I suspect they will. The big one will be if you can read back CV parameters while in programming mode. Just to qualify @ColinB statement - only on the programming track as via the app is OTA and CV read and write is not affected by a stay alive. The built in decoder lag is for DCC service mode programming only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-373700 Posted March 30 Author Share Posted March 30 Not sure what all that means to be honest .. I have a length of track I test the running, adjust the speed take off and slow down and tweak a few volumes. And thats it for cv's adjustments for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukedog. Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 I know this topic will keep rolling on but nobody has said about run times or total capacitance of each stay alive / power bank to get a performance comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Should be roughly the same, a lot depends on the capacitors they use. I use LaisDCC ones with my Zimo decoders and the time is roughly the same. The HM7000 doesn't have one but the Zimo and Train O Matic decoders have a CV for setting how long the long will run without a DCC signal. For the HM7000, I imagine 0.5 of a second should be good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Hornby one is 3 x 1F supercaps in series so a total of 1/3F. Run time is quoted as 9 seconds - motor + lights + sound. Actual depletion time depends upon actual load obviously. Still waiting for folk to unclothe an A+E one to see what size they are, how many (looks like x 4) and what additional components they have. @ateshci has already done the big sums to work out the real usefulness of stay alives in terms of a value we can understand for comparison. See the other power bank / stay alive thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 This is the thread to which RAF refers, hiding in the (wrong) TT:120 forum and now down to page 2 there: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 12 hours ago, Fishmanoz said: This is the thread to which RAF refers, hiding in the (wrong) TT:120 forum and now down to page 2 there: Trouble with this video the guy eventually got someone else to fit it for him, so not really much help. If you are going to use a Zimo decoder generally you can get away with just adding a capacitor which is what is usually supplied. So instead of using the supplied one from YouChoos you can couple 4 surface mount tantalum capacitors together which will fit in a much smaller space. If you want to use "stay alive" LaisDCC market one that is incredibly small. Mod note - guideline #1 - no active promotion of other brands although discussion is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 (edited) Colin, while the video doesn’t show how it’s fitted, a subsequent post with photo in the thread does. Edited March 31 by Fishmanoz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 (edited) 7 hours ago, ColinB said: Trouble with this video the guy eventually got someone else to fit it for him, so not really much help. If you are going to use a Zimo decoder generally you can get away with just adding a capacitor which is what is usually supplied. So instead of using the supplied one from YouChoos you can couple 4 surface mount tantalum capacitors together which will fit in a much smaller space. If you want to use "stay alive" LaisDCC market one that is incredibly small. Mod note - guideline #1 - no active promotion of other brands although discussion is allowed. I am not promoting them, I use them because they are useful and it appears a lot of people don't know they exist, if the evidence from most of the posts is anything to go by. I have bought many brands than don't actually work, that ended up wasting my money, I would like to stop other people falling into the same traps. I have no financial interest in this firm and I pay the same price as anyone else so what is the issue? Edited March 31 by ColinB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 21 hours ago, 96RAF said: Hornby one is 3 x 1F supercaps in series so a total of 1/3F. Run time is quoted as 9 seconds - motor + lights + sound. Actual depletion time depends upon actual load obviously. Still waiting for folk to unclothe an A+E one to see what size they are, how many (looks like x 4) and what additional components they have. @ateshci has already done the big sums to work out the real usefulness of stay alives in terms of a value we can understand for comparison. See the other power bank / stay alive thread. Hornby put 3 in series because they are only rated at 5 volts maximum, so you get 15 volts, you are not really meant to do that. I assume AE do as LaisDCC do and put them in parallel with the right voltage across them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ateshci Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Sorry, the capacitors are rated 2.7V each. Please keep the facts correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Just now, ateshci said: Sorry, the capacitors are rated 2.7V each. Please keep the facts correct. That is why I said 5 volts maximum, I knew it was less than that but thank you for pointing it out. Either way it is not 15 volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ateshci Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Still there's a misconception about the way most stay-alives work. There a few that use 10V...16V tantalum capacitors ranging from 100..1000 microfarad. The voltage drops by 10V during buffering and the time is rather short. All in all buffering in the milliseconds range. Then there's the majority delivering constant voltage for longer time intervals ( 2..10 secs) using step-up converters and supercaps. Lais' is one of them. Most of them use two supercaps in series to achieve acceptable COPs. These stay-alives are much better suited to support sound-decoders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 3 minutes ago, ateshci said: Still there's a misconception about the way most stay-alives work. There a few that use 10V...16V tantalum capacitors ranging from 100..1000 microfarad. The voltage drops by 10V during buffering and the time is rather short. All in all buffering in the milliseconds range. Then there's the majority delivering constant voltage for longer time intervals ( 2..10 secs) using step-up converters and supercaps. Lais' is one of them. Most of them use two supercaps in series to achieve acceptable COPs. These stay-alives are much better suited to support sound-decoders. Thank you for the information. The Lais ones I have, actually have 4 devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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