New Hornby 'Steam' Generator

[clive-1265812]

Hi, I would like the new Black 5 in LMS livery w. steam generator but the only model thus equipped in a BR version - does anyone know if Hornby plan to offer a retro-fit unit for fitting to models tooled for the generator?

And of course would this be feasible as at the least the smokebox door would need to be made removable.

[LTSR_NSE]

Hornby have given absolutely no indication they have any thoughts to offer the atomiser, reservoir, etc. internals as separately purchasable parts.

Your best bets (if you don’t want to have a go yourself) are probably to either pay someone to re-livery the body, or wait and see what liveries might be produced in future - since it is highly doubtful that Hornby would invest in significant tooling & development expense for a single production run!

You could always email marketing with your suggestion/request & see if they can be persuaded.

Edited May 12 by LTSR_NSE

[Peter Stiles]

It's not an easy retro fit.

There's the synchronization wheel on the gearing/axels to start with, then there's the physical space for the atomiser equipment.

 

They have said they won't release fit-yourself kits and once you realise the complexity you can understand why.

[clive-1265812]

I agree with both of you and if Hornby haven't designed the upgrade into unfitted models then, yes, sounds very difficult involving major works on a new model and blowing up the guarantee in the process. I was asking on the basis of the Sam's Trains LMS B5 review where he mentions the space where the atomiser would sit on the chassis but I didn't appreciate there would be a synch wheel needed. So I guess if this feature is a success there might be an LMS version in a year or 2, meanwhile I could get the P2 thus equipped and just run a guest train of LNER stock (but it's a lot of money!)

[atom3624]

No idea how good / bad these are - often hear them being mentioned.

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/seuthe-22e-smoke-unit-only-for-ho-and-oo-plastic-bodies.html?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw9IayBhBJEiwAVuc3fkvsjOgjMNqHoNEfaCpv6_JTQFEdHOFYwnVlDOSbfhN57kDfZRFAcBoCU5sQAvD_BwE

Al.

[ColinB]

14 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

No idea how good / bad these are - often hear them being mentioned.

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/seuthe-22e-smoke-unit-only-for-ho-and-oo-plastic-bodies.html?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw9IayBhBJEiwAVuc3fkvsjOgjMNqHoNEfaCpv6_JTQFEdHOFYwnVlDOSbfhN57kDfZRFAcBoCU5sQAvD_BwE

Al.

I don't know about these but the old Hornby ones used to distort bodies.

[Loewietje]

I wonder if Peter’s spares might in the future sell parts for Hornby ‘fitted for but not with’ smoke generatorS, like the current LMS B5 or streamlined P2’s. In that case I would fit these to my 2003 and 2005, and even consider a visiting B5. 

[ntpntpntp]

2 hours ago, atom3624 said:

No idea how good / bad these are - often hear them being mentioned.

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/seuthe-22e-smoke-unit-only-for-ho-and-oo-plastic-bodies.html?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw9IayBhBJEiwAVuc3fkvsjOgjMNqHoNEfaCpv6_JTQFEdHOFYwnVlDOSbfhN57kDfZRFAcBoCU5sQAvD_BwE

Al.

Seuthe smoke units have been around for decades and were pretty much the "go-to" brand for model trains and model boats. I remember my Triang loco with "SyncroSmoke" came with a tube of smoke oil identical those sold by Seuthe. 
They do the job but there's no chuff synchronisation and they're only really effective if the voltage is up near the maximum - so on DC that tends to mean running at high speed 🙂
I have a couple of N gauge locos with Seuthe units, and also LGB G scale locos.

[Going Spare]

Hornby have confirmed that, although the steam generator parts for the Black 5, the W1 and the A1 are shown on Service Sheets 477, 478 and 480A, they do not intend offering them for sale other than factory-fitted within a complete loco. 

[ColinB]

To make them work you need some software which means you need to be able to program the decoder, plus I think there is a sensor that controls something to do with it. Hornby aren't into making smoke generators so I assume if you looked long and hard you could probably find the part but you still need to control it somehow. Someone did say they use the same technology in vapes, I don't smoke so I don't know, nor do I have one that I can take apart. 

[What About The Bee]

If Hornby will not sell the part, then if the locomotive needs service, it must be returned to Hornby?  I see no other venue for repair 

Bee

Edited August 19 by What About The Bee

[ColinB]

1 hour ago, What About The Bee said:

If Hornby will not sell the part, then if the locomotive needs service, it must be returned to Hornby?  I see no other venue for repair 

Bee

Given Hornby's current supply of replacement parts, unless it is under warranty, you bin the loco. They supply very little in the way of spare parts, generally they are what is left over from a production run.

[What About The Bee]

Understood Colin.  

Yet the Steam Generator is a flagship feature.  One only available at Hornby.  I would hope and expect that Hornby have enough spares to cover warranties.  Presumably, every Steam Generator model issued is still under warranty.

Yet as it is under warranty, Hornby doesn't send out the part, they must do the warranty repair at Margate.  In a way, this is very wise.  They get a good sample of factory defects related to a new feature.  Excellent fodder for Engineering.

How the distressed owner of a defective smoke generator views this may be another matter.   I will leave that part to actual owners to state.

Bee

[ColinB]

9 hours ago, What About The Bee said:

Understood Colin.  

Yet the Steam Generator is a flagship feature.  One only available at Hornby.  I would hope and expect that Hornby have enough spares to cover warranties.  Presumably, every Steam Generator model issued is still under warranty.

Yet as it is under warranty, Hornby doesn't send out the part, they must do the warranty repair at Margate.  In a way, this is very wise.  They get a good sample of factory defects related to a new feature.  Excellent fodder for Engineering.

How the distressed owner of a defective smoke generator views this may be another matter.   I will leave that part to actual owners to state.

Bee

I suspect it is a standard part Hornby don't make steam generators. I expect they buy them in.

[96RAF]

9 hours ago, What About The Bee said:

Understood Colin.  

Yet the Steam Generator is a flagship feature.  One only available at Hornby.  I would hope and expect that Hornby have enough spares to cover warranties.  Presumably, every Steam Generator model issued is still under warranty.

Yet as it is under warranty, Hornby doesn't send out the part, they must do the warranty repair at Margate.  In a way, this is very wise.  They get a good sample of factory defects related to a new feature.  Excellent fodder for Engineering.

How the distressed owner of a defective smoke generator views this may be another matter.   I will leave that part to actual owners to state.

Bee

I would expect most failures of the generator to be user induced by use of 'bad' water, inept knowledge of how the system works, rather than burn-out.

[96RAF]

1 minute ago, ColinB said:

I suspect it is a standard part Hornby don't make steam generators. I expect they buy them in.

The ultrasonic bit is a commercial part, the associated driver pcb is a new design based on the commercial driver which was oversize for direct use, and the whole lot is mounted into a (was 3-D printed) bespoke to loco water tank - casing. The chances of any particular unit fitting or being able to be modified to fit another non SS loco are slim to none, therefore there will never be a retro-fit SS kit, else Hornby will open themselves up to a world of grief from the plug-n-play merchants who will cry 'I bought this universal unit and it won't fit in my Pug, etc'. We saw enough of that nonsense with TTS decoders.

[Paul-380474]

On 13/05/2024 at 18:22, ntpntpntp said:

Seuthe smoke units have been around for decades and were pretty much the "go-to" brand for model trains and model boats. I remember my Triang loco with "SyncroSmoke" came with a tube of smoke oil identical those sold by Seuthe. 
They do the job but there's no chuff synchronisation and they're only really effective if the voltage is up near the maximum - so on DC that tends to mean running at high speed 🙂
I have a couple of N gauge locos with Seuthe units, and also LGB G scale locos.

I bought a second hand engine (duchess) off ebay which had been retro fitted with lantern lights, sound, flickering firebox and smoke. The smoke seems to be controlled by its own dcc decoder, and is separate from the one that runs the engine. This enables you to 'turn up' the smoke when travelling at speed, and stop it when stationary. There were documents that came with it, but finding them would be a chore. I have not had the courage to 'look under the bonnet' to see how it all works!!

[ColinB]

56 minutes ago, 96RAF said:

The ultrasonic bit is a commercial part, the associated driver pcb is a new design based on the commercial driver which was oversize for direct use, and the whole lot is mounted into a (was 3-D printed) bespoke to loco water tank - casing. The chances of any particular unit fitting or being able to be modified to fit another non SS loco are slim to none, therefore there will never be a retro-fit SS kit, else Hornby will open themselves up to a world of grief from the plug-n-play merchants who will cry 'I bought this universal unit and it won't fit in my Pug, etc'. We saw enough of that nonsense with TTS decoders.

Thank you for the information. I said earlier it wouldn't be much use fitting it in even if you could, you need some software to run it. Someone could easily make that tank, but it is the software that prohibits its use. As to TTS I didn't know there were any issues from fitting it badly, it was very vulnerable to overheating made worse by having to very careful how you insulated the circuit board. Anyway Hornby provides very few spare parts.