How many DCC controllers do I need - (Was Steam generator 'oil')

[Ian-1301567]

Another topic you could help me with has I'm new to DCC Controllers as I was wondering has to the amount of track carriageway you can use with 1 DCC Controller with 2 Controls is it just say 2 looped tracks and if using points that you would have to get the polarity correct when crossing over to another track.

So in essence if I had 4 Carriageway of track side-by-side I would have to buy 2 DCC Controllers with the 2 Variable Controls?,

Edited June 21 by 96RAF
Topic split, retitled and moved into its own thread

[LTSR_NSE]

You only ever use 1 DCC controller across the whole layout - multiple would cause damage to each other.

If your layout is extremely large you may need to use boosters connected to the 1 controller.

Edit - with certain DCC controllers you can connect multiple handsets into 1 base unit (so that multiple people can control trains simultaneously) however that still uses only 1 base unit sending/receiving all the signals through the track.

Edited June 21 by LTSR_NSE

[Ian-1301567]

3 minutes ago, LTSR_NSE said:

You only ever use 1 DCC controller across the whole layout - multiple would cause damage to each other.

If your layout is extremely large you may need to use boosters connected to the 1 controller.

So how do these boosters connect to multiple tracks?

[LTSR_NSE]

With DCC your whole layout needs to be connected together/live - it is completely different from DC/analogue where you have 1 controller per track.

[Ian-1301567]

1 minute ago, Ian-1301567 said:

So how do these boosters connect to multiple tracks?

You couldn't send us a sketch on how to connect up multiple carriageway of track using these boosters to the 1 DCC Controller to give us an idea?

[LTSR_NSE]

How big is your layout?

Boosters are not needed for multiple oval tracks on a baseboard - they are only necessary if you have a massive layout e.g. running through several rooms of your house or exhibition size!

Edited June 21 by LTSR_NSE

[SteveM6]

Repeating the question, how big is your layout?

For comparison, I have over 50 yards of track, usually with a dozen locos 'live' on the layout. I have a single DCC bus that feeds every piece of track from an Elite controller and a 4 amp power supply. No power drop off or cutting out anywhere on the layout.

[Ian-1301567]

2 hours ago, LTSR_NSE said:

How big is your layout?

Boosters are not needed for multiple oval tracks on a baseboard - they are only necessary if you have a massive layout e.g. running through several rooms of your house or exhibition size!

Well the layout is 15ft x 12ft with points coming off oval parts of track which split into 5 carriageway track to the main station at the end of the room.

[ntpntpntp]

31 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said:

Well the layout is 15ft x 12ft

Not a large layout.   How many locos running at the same time (plus coaches with lights and other current draw on the track power)?   Doesn't sound like you'll need a booster, just wire all the track together as one live circuit, using dropper feeds and a distribution bus or reasonably thick wire. 

[ModelerXYZ]

1 A hornby Elite with the supplied 4A transformer. You don't need multiple controllers to control multiple trains in DCC. I regularlly have 3 running at the same time on my layout. On yours I would say that your practical limit is likely to be about 7 after which you may have difficulty keeping track of them all. I would. XYZ

[Ian-1301567]

So basically if I connect one track to the DCC Controller can I then wire or loop all the rest of the track together and that should do the trick. 

[ntpntpntp]

1 hour ago, ModelerXYZ said:

You don't need multiple controllers to control multiple trains in DCC

But it does make things a bit easier to have more than one throttle. Easier to adjust each one without having to cycle round to select the one you wish to tweak 🙂 

[ntpntpntp]

11 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said:

So basically if I connect one track to the DCC Controller can I then wire or loop all the rest of the track together and that should do the trick. 

Then you're relying on the trackwork to carry the current for all the trains. The joints in the track can be the weakpoint - poor conductivity leads to high resistance leads to voltage drops and possible corruption of the DCC signal   It is usually considered better to create a "DCC bus" with thick wire, and connect the DCC system and the trackwork to this bus in several places. That way you spread the load around the bus wiring and not through the track.   Some people choose to wire each piece of track to the bus.  Personally I think that's overkill but having multiple / regular feeds is sensible (as it is with DC to be honest).

Edited June 21 by ntpntpntp

[ModelerXYZ]

5 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said:

So basically if I connect one track to the DCC Controller can I then wire or loop all the rest of the track together and that should do the trick. 

Yes. Pointwork does need the DCC point clips on them though because Hornby points are self isolating. Also, feeds from the controller to all loops and any other odd trackworks that you wish are good. My layout was originally DC and I converted it, so all the feeds are connected to the Elite controller via a terminal block. An Elite has duel throttles. XYZ

[Ian-1301567]

21 minutes ago, ntpntpntp said:

Then you're relying on the trackwork to carry the current for all the trains. The joints in the track can be the weakpoint - poor conductivity leads to high resistance leads to voltage drops and possible corruption of the DCC signal   It is usually considered better to create a "DCC bus" with thick wire, and connect the DCC system and the trackwork to this bus in several places. That way you spread the load around the bus wiring and not through the track.   Some people choose to wire each piece of track to the bus.  Personally I think that's overkill but having multiple / regular feeds is sensible (as it is with DC to be honest).

How would you show this using a DCC Bus or thick wire when you are just using 12v DC Circuit.

[ntpntpntp]

If you're running plain DC then effectively you create a bus for each controller. All the track that controller is responsible for powering is connected to that controller's DC bus. If your DC layout has switched isolating sections for parking locos etc. then that is still fed from the controller out to the track via a switch. 

It gets more complicated if you run DC with cab control to switch any section of track between different controllers, but basically each section is wired back to the control panel and the switches on the panel connect to the appropriate controller bus.  This is how I've built my DC layouts since the 1980s.   A happy side effect of this cab control wiring is that I can change my layout to DCC by simply plugging the DCC system into one of the cab control buses and switch all track sections to that bus. 

Maybe I'm getting beyond your original question though?    So if you have 4 track ovals that implies you have 4 DC controllers, right?  The starting point to get your layout running DCC would be to disconnect all 4 DC controllers, join all those controller output wires together to create one pair (ensuring the same rail polarity for each pair of wires) and then connect that single pair of wires to the DCC system. 

Edited June 21 by ntpntpntp

[Ian-1301567]

22 minutes ago, ntpntpntp said:

If you're running plain DC then effectively you create a bus for each controller. All the track that controller is responsible for powering is connected to that controller's DC bus. If your DC layout has switched isolating sections for parking locos etc. then that is still fed from the controller out to the track via a switch. 

It gets more complicated if you run DC with cab control to switch any section of track between different controllers, but basically each section is wired back to the control panel and the switches on the panel connect to the appropriate controller bus.  This is how I've built my DC layouts since the 1980s.   A happy side effect of this cab control wiring is that I can change my layout to DCC by simply plugging the DCC system into one of the cab control buses and switch all track sections to that bus. 

Maybe I'm getting beyond your original question though?    So if you have 4 track ovals that implies you have 4 DC controllers, right?  The starting point to get your layout running DCC would be to disconnect all 4 DC controllers, join all those controller output wires together to create one pair (ensuring the same rail polarity for each pair of wires) and then connect that single pair of wires to the DCC system. 

1 hour ago, ntpntpntp said:

Then you're relying on the trackwork to carry the current for all the trains. The joints in the track can be the weakpoint - poor conductivity leads to high resistance leads to voltage drops and possible corruption of the DCC signal   It is usually considered better to create a "DCC bus" with thick wire, and connect the DCC system and the trackwork to this bus in several places. That way you spread the load around the bus wiring and not through the track.   Some people choose to wire each piece of track to the bus.  Personally I think that's overkill but having multiple / regular feeds is sensible (as it is with DC to be honest).

So if you connect the normal connections to the DCC Controller and then connect the wires from the DCC Controller to a terminal block then from the Terminal Block connect the various different tracks to power the individual tracks of say 4 individual carriageways of track.Would this work?

[ntpntpntp]

23 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said:

So if you connect the normal connections to the DCC Controller and then connect the wires from the DCC Controller to a terminal block then from the Terminal Block connect the various different tracks to power the individual tracks of say 4 individual carriageways of track.Would this work?

Use a distribution board rather than a simple terminal block.  1 input pair and several output pairs. This diagram shows DC with multiple controllers at the top, then DCC with one system at the bottom

There are plenty of distribution boards available for model railways.  Here's just one example:
CN165 Power Distribution Board 18 way Screw Terminal Connection | bclstore.co.ukCN165

[Ian-1301567]

12 minutes ago, ntpntpntp said:

Use a distribution board rather than a simple terminal block.  1 input pair and several output pairs. This diagram shows DC with multiple controllers at the top, then DCC with one system at the bottom

There are plenty of distribution boards available for model railways.  Here's just one example:
CN165 Power Distribution Board 18 way Screw Terminal Connection | bclstore.co.ukCN165

That's more like what I'm looking for so if I use this method this will work.So I need to buy this CN165 Power board in conjunction with the DCC Controller. 

[ntpntpntp]

Well the distribution board suggestion as above is one possible approach to feed DCC into your trackwork. It's not as good as installing a proper DCC bus with short soldered dropper connections for the feeds, but it should get you going and you could always re-wire as a bus later if you feel it necessary.  

On small layouts it's possible to use such a distribution board in lieu of a wired DCC bus running all round the layout, you just bring all the track feeds back to the board. 

Shop around for other distribution boards, though I think that one is a fair price given the number of connections possible.

[Ian-1301567]

Do you have a drawing layout for the Bus Method if that's also a possibility .

[Ian-1301567]

1 hour ago, Ian-1301567 said:

That's more like what I'm looking for so if I use this method this will work.So I need to buy this CN165 Power board in conjunction with the DCC Controller. 

With being a novice at this I understand the cabling to the tracks but at the other end towards the DCC Controller there are only the wires now I assume these being Live and Earth but how do wire these to the distribution board from the DCC Controller itself?.

[LTSR_NSE]

@Ian-1301567 you connect the DCC controller’s track output wires to the distribution board’s input connection.

You then connect the distribution board’s multiple outputs to various track pieces around your layout (minimum 1 for each loop) - it is vital that the polarity of all track connections match!

For best results you are effectively connecting the controller to as many track pieces simultaneously as possible.

Edited June 22 by LTSR_NSE

[LTSR_NSE]

The concept of the bus is to have something similar to a 2-core 5amp cable running underneath the full length of your baseboard.  You connect/solder the track outputs of your DCC controller to this main cable.  You then solder/connect (using short smaller wires) as many track pieces as possible to this main cable.

Both bus or distribution board methods are to achieve same result - just using whichever connection method is easier/more appropriate.

[Ian-1301567]

 

So for example which wires connect to the input and output when wiring to the CN165 Distribution board?.