Toddie86 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Hello, I think I burnt out the motor in my old diesel triang loco. It ran fine then started to stutter and smell very bad. I switched it off right away and noticed it had also started to smoke a little. I've taken the motor apart and given it a good clean etc again but it's no longer got any life and will smoke if I apply even a small amount of current to it. I've read a lot that these old motors are very repairable I'm just not sure what the next step would be. Obviously it's hard to diagnose online but I've added a photo and short video of the problem and where the smoke came from. Any help from the community would be much appreciated before I go off and buy one of those X04, x03 motor upgrade kits. Thanks VID_20240623_091121.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 If the arrow indicates where the smoke is coming from then a clean/replacement of the brushes and commutator might restore it. Carefully remove the two brushes which are held in place by the long springy retaining wire. If the black carbon pads on those appear non-existent or next to they will need replacing. Several outlets supply replacement brushes for X03/04 motors. Next clean the commutator with something like brasso and clean out the grooves with something like a cocktail stick. If that doesn't do the trick it is likely that the motor will need replacing. There is a website called hornbytriangspareparts.co.uk that supplies both the brushes and complete motes at a reasonable cost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddie86 Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 Thanks Brew Man, I did clean those with some isopropyl alcohol but will certainly give it another try. I think the brush pads look OK, not too worn but I've also not seen many to compare to. Do they look ok to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) Totally agree with BM. A good clean and degrease is required, a touch of oil in the bushes (both ends - NB not brushes!), maintain the contours of the brushes and give them a clean. Insulator - state the obvious - must be on the side it is. Once clean, run on light load before replacing in the locomotive to start to 'bed in' the brushes again. Brushes seemed to have 'plenty of meat' on them - no need to replace. Al. Edited June 23 by atom3624 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesXRN Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Does the motor spin freely by hand and do the wheels turn freely with the motor removed? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 If you have a multimeter check each pole to pole resistance is the same value. I saw a spark in the video which may be a short of just crud burning off. Be aware if you take the magnet out it will lose its strength, so work round it as best you can. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 To me, that spark is indicative of the grooves between the commutator segments being bridged by foreign matter or even the loose end of a broken wire in one of the armature windings shorting. It is difficult to tell from the photographs but the area of and around the commutator looks to be oily, hence the smoke? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddie86 Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 32 minutes ago, LesXRN said: Does the motor spin freely by hand and do the wheels turn freely with the motor removed? Hi Les, yes the motor spins freely and so do the wheels. The chassis runs fine when I swap the motor out for one of my other working motors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddie86 Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 17 minutes ago, 96RAF said: If you have a multimeter check each pole to pole resistance is the same value. I saw a spark in the video which may be a short of just crud burning off. Be aware if you take the magnet out it will lose its strength, so work round it as best you can. Thanks, i'll give this a check later today and be sure to leave the magnet in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpntpntp Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 As the others have said, re-profile the brushes very slightly and ensure the contact surface is clean. Shine up the commutator segments and clean the gaps gently and carefully with a wooden cocktail stick. You can test for a dead pole simply by applying just a couple of volts of power and turning the motor slowly by hand - you'll feel resistance is the coil is alive, and nothing if it's dead. If the motor has overheated it has been known for a coil wire to disconnect from the commutator - I've repaired N gauge motors with this problem but it does point to another issue if it was down to overheating. High current draw can be down to the mechanism needing servicing and lubricating, but it can also be due to the magnet losing strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddie86 Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 I gave the motor a good clean, fixed the brushes etc, added oil to the bushes and it actually ran which is obviously better but when I change direction there was a flash and a puff of smoke and then nothing so somethings definitely not quiet right. Could this missing bit of solder have anything to do with it? I've noticed two of the coils have blobs of solder on the commutator but one is missing, fell off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Each blob of solder should have a pair of wires to it, each wrapped around the adjacent armature pole to connect to a commutator segment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddie86 Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 Thanks 96, I think we've found the problem then. I've attached the best closeup I can of the area where the missing solder is. I can resolder no problem but I can only see one wire, not sure how to go about finding the second one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 3 coils of wire 6 blobs of solder Attached on opposing pads on commutator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 The wire wrap goes like this. Starting end at comm1, wrapped around pole piece 1 until full (or to spec) and attached to comm2, then continue on to wrap around pole piece 2 and attach it to comm3, then wrap around pole piece 3 and back to end at comm1. You can, if there is not enough slack, unwind just one wrap of wire, trim to length, scrape off the enamel and resolder. This is a simple wind, there are more complex winds, wave and lap winds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddie86 Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 27 minutes ago, 96RAF said: The wire wrap goes like this. Starting end at comm1, wrapped around pole piece 1 until full (or to spec) and attached to comm2, then continue on to wrap around pole piece 2 and attach it to comm3, then wrap around pole piece 3 and back to end at comm1. You can, if there is not enough slack, unwind just one wrap of wire, trim to length, scrape off the enamel and resolder. This is a simple wind, there are more complex winds, wave and lap winds. That sounds challenging! I'll take a look and give it a go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 If all else fails replacement X03/04 motors are quite cheap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 10 minutes ago, Toddie86 said: That sounds challenging! I'll take a look and give it a go You only need to free up enough slack to resolder the errant ends. The challenge comes if the duff end is the buried end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddie86 Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 13 minutes ago, Brew Man said: If all else fails replacement X03/04 motors are quite cheap. Yep, I'll go down that route if it can't be saved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 There are few options if you decided to replace the motor after your attempt of repairing it. Am I to assume this is X04 motor (with brass cog) you can buy used in decent condition from website like ebay from £10.00 plus postage or alternative is, there are 3 types of Can Motor with bracket which will fit in X04 space. Such as this; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156268711901 but you will have to remove the cog and install on this motor, or https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325809079837 this one comes fitted with brass cog. Another option, but way too expensive, but I don't know if this will fit in your loco; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144911822821 Hope that's a help to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddie86 Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 Thanks all, it was a bit beyond my skills to repair but I've kept the old motor in the event I can fix it later. I pulled the plug and bought a refurbished one on ebay for £10 and now the loco runs fine again without any problems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Very good to hear 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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