Hornby Lecture at Alexandra Palace

[RDS]

Could someone who went to the Hornby talk, please add a few details of the detection system that was scheduled to be discussed.

I am particularly interested in what extra hardware will be required and how accurate it is likely to be. Will a decoder

 

be required for each piece of hardware or will it be 4 per decoder as for points etc.

Any details would be appreciated - perhaps Hornby would like to advise?

[walkingthedog]

I think this question has already been asked RDS and nobody was forthcoming.

May I suggest you ask Hornby directly but not through the forum as they don't respond to it.

Good luck.

[RDS]

@walkingthedog

Yes sorry, I realised after posting that the question had been asked (but maybe the title where it was asked, could have been a little more self explanatory!)

 

I have already sent an email to Hornby asking if details could be put

 

on the Hornby website.

 

I can't believe though that someone who heard the talk has not come forward yet on this forum or maybe no-one was there.

 

 

[walkingthedog]

It was very busy there with hundreds of people milling about. Not the ideal place to take notes. I should think something will appear in a magazine in due course.

[Fishmanoz]

Common TnT, you both made a fuss about going to the show and the RM talk, tell us what was said?

[stevecamden]

I thought LMSTim was supposed to be going - he is normally very informed!

This is all very strange. It is all on a need to know basis - a bit MI5 - spooky eh

[RDS]

I think I can answer my own question!

I have received some information direct from RailMaster Support at Hornby which I have copied below. It sounds good and I am looking forward to trying it out. I understand it is planned to be launched towards the

 

end of the year.

 

The information I received is:

There are three parts to the Loco Detection system: 1) a USB loco detection module with inputs from track sensors 2) track sensors and 3) loco detection tags.

 

The more track sensors you add the

 

more accurate the system will be. Each loco can be encoded with over 100 allowable on a single layout.

 

Suffice to say, the system will be the lowest cost, most powerful system available on the market. It will also be very easy to fit.

 

 

[Gregd99]

from the information above we can conclude that this is a a "point detection"system. ie it reports when a particular loco is at a given point on the layout.

 

Presumably railmaster will be modified to support features such as:-

1. play sound A

 

when loco X (or any loco) is at location Y

2. operate accessory decoder Z (could be a set of points or a light) ehrn loco T (or any loco) is at point P

 

and so on.

 

what the point detection approach is not strong at is implementing a "block

 

allocation" scheme where parts of the layout are assigned to specific trains. It can be done.... but software with knowledge of the track topology and point settings is needed.

 

 

[stevecamden]

If they deliver on this I will be more than happy. My only concern is the butchering of the track once its been laid and ballasted. I guess these detectors sit between the sleepers and are just wired up to central boxes that then run through the bus wire

 

to the Elite track.

 

I can't wait.

[96RAF]

[reply]stevecamden said:

I guess these detectors sit between the sleepers and are just wired up to central boxes that then run through the bus wire to the Elite track.

reply]

 

Based on what RDS says, there are 3 parts - a black box, track detection

 

modules and (sticky on?) train bits.

We already know that the black box is a USB connection to the pc (gleaned from some other part of the forum/thread/Hornby info - and thus talks direct to the pc (Railmaster) not the Elite or eLink).

We also know the

 

track detection modules connect to this black box, likely to be via plain wires (hence we can deduce they are some sort of optical detector based on them reading data from the bits attached to the train).

It is to be hoped that the detectors will only require

 

a small hole in the baseboard (say 3mm to fit twixt sleepers and therefore not destructive to existing scenery) with a couple of wires each back to a local black box, hence to the pc.

The major pain in the b*m is the expected delivery date quoted as being

 

in the far future.

[walkingthedog]

The way things are going DCC will end up with more wires than DC. What happened to 'it only needs two wires'?

[Graskie]

But at least it will be a lot more interesting and promising than the limitations of DC will ever be, WTD. Personally, I'm not bothered about some of the latest concepts of voice control, app controllers, loco detection etc but I suppose it is there, or

 

almost there, for the more advanced and sophisticated modeller wanting it.

[Graskie]

PS. I'm so sorry you can't afford to switch to a system which is obviously vastly superior to what you have at the moment.

[walkingthedog]

That's you opinion Graskie. I can control four locos at once without having to remember what number has been allocated. The thought of playing trains with a PC leaves me cold.

[walkingthedog]

Rather have a few holidays in Australia than spend thousands on decoders.

[Graskie]

I don't think you're being PC, WTD.

[walkingthedog]

Very good.

[DaveAus]

Something for everyone that's what I like. Personally I can't imagine going back to DC - I'm fully computerised and will do doubt fit loco detection as soon as it becomes available.

[walkingthedog]

I read the DCC threads to see what I can learn and it seems to be problem after problem. I know DCC has many advantages but what exactly can it do that my DC layout can't and I don't mean using a PC to control locos, sound, detection etc. If you just want

 

to run 3 or 4 locos at a time my layout is fine. I don't have to remember what code is designated to a loco I just turn the required knob and off it goes.

[walkingthedog]

If I'm running two locos and want to cross one over the others line to go to a siding and realise I've timed it wrong I can instantly stop or slow down either loco without having to think to avoid a collision. Can you instantly stop or slow down either

 

loco with DCC using just the single controller.

My mate who is fully DCC can run any of his locos on my layout, I can't run any of mine on his and that's called progress. Not in my view.

I'll go now so the DCC brigade can think of ways of making us

 

dinosaurs extinct again.

[Fishmanoz]

WTD you certainly can't do this on DCC with the Select, your only option is the emergency stop. However, you can do it with the Elite where you can go from the loco on control knobs A and B simply by pressing the knob at the same time as you start to back

 

off the throttle by rotating.

 

But the Railmaster handheld apps are where this can get really elegant. On my iPad, I can see 3-4 locos at the same time, I can't forget which is which as I have a little graphic of the loco displayed, and I can change

 

speed simply by touching the throttle at the point where I want each loco to change to and it changes to that at the set rate of acceleration/deceleration. And with the app, I can do that wherever I am in sight of the layout, not just standing in front of

 

my controller/s.

 

And I'm hoping when loco detection is added to RM that I will be able to write a simple program to do all of that for me if such collisions are about to happen.

 

So I think DCC has you on that challenge WTD. In fact, DCC will

 

always trump you for flexibility in any situation where DC requires isolated sections to run more than one loco simultaneously.

[Fishmanoz]

Don't get me wrong either WTD. I'm not advocating that you need to update from dinosaur to fossil like many of the rest of us. If DC does all you need, then by all means stick with it, but there really are things possible with DCC that go beyond the limitations

 

of DC.

[DaveAus]

WTD - there is a big red button that instantly drops the power so in theory no more crashes. In the RailMaster program the big red button has a 'graceful shutdown option' What I like about DCC is the simple option to drive a loco onto a track or siding

 

that may have another loco parked on it as this gives me more flexibility to move my trains around. I have a 9 x 4 layout with 7 locos on it at present and I regularly swap say my 4-6-0 Clun Castle with my 4-6-2 A4 EagleHawk to pull my Pullman coaches. I tend

 

to uncouple at the station, take the in-use loco past the siding then bring the alternate out and couple up, they then chase each other around the track till the original get parked back in the siding. Very simple stuff made much easier with DCC.

 

Re

 

DCC problems I did have an issue with the RailMaster upgrade and one of my loco's that was DCC ready and I fitted the decoder doesn't seem to run as well as the others. This problem has been eliminated by only buying DCC fitted loco's and I have even narrowed

 

that down to sound only DCC. Handy has never been a quality I have never achieved in my 62 years but DCC (including a 13 points) has been easy.

 

As I said "something for everyone" but DCC has given me many hours of pleasure and only a couple of pain.

 

You obviously like the way your setup works and that's great 'cause it's all about having fun with this great hobby.

 

Dave

[walkingthedog]

If the only way to stop a loco in a hurry that isn't under 'direct' control is to push the big red button and stop everything surely this isn't progress it's a step backward. I can stop any one of four locos instantly.

 

I know DCC is an amazing advance

 

but like some of you have said its not for everyone.

 

I just thought I'd light the blue touch paper and watch the fireworks.

 

Some get very aggressive towards those with DC as if we're living in the past

 

I wonder if these people have the

 

latest digital camera, smart TV, IPads, the latest type of HiFi like I do?

[poliss]

That's because DC locos not under direct control aren't going anywhere. ;-) If you want a fifth loco moving, without stopping the other four, you'll need to buy another controller.