Tech Specs - and skills needed

[Yelrow]

Morning Roger, yes, i accept that, and there are things that can be done to clear junk. Most of us who have had hornby take over their machines, have had things deleated, and re installed, which supports the junk theory. I was not suggesting hornby sold laptops, . We all have different Anti virus, which has been some of the problem, usb, 1, 2 , 3 another. The people who have been most successful, have been those who bought an old or spare machine, and dedicated it, clearing out all the things which tend to affect rm. Time will tell. Until then, we know we have folk on here who are able to help. john

[Fishmanoz]

Thanks admin, good to know. And yes, we know people will continue to ask, and ask in the wrong place and ask on the bottom of unrelated threads rather than starting a new one. But being able to refer them to threads at the top of a forum will be a big improvement. 

[Augustus Caesar]

Quite right Admin. While I would never cover an aspect of RM or laptop/PC usage with technical jargon I would rather be the absolute opposite. From my own posts on here where help has been given I have tried to keep terms simple and not bog folk down with stuff that would blow some folk's minds. Reason? Simple. Everyone has their limitation on knowledge on any subject and this is no different. So, while I know there are some folk on here that may understand everything thrown at them there are some who just don't know what USB is for example. So, from my point of view, I would never bog folk down in that way.

In regards to a post earlier about dedicated laptops or PC's etc for RM and/or more that is something I chose to do for myself although the laptop I use will also be taken to do other tasks. I would never advocate someone follow advice given where they are advised to use a specific machine. If my post was taken that way it is a simple misunderstanding and is quite indicative of how words can be misinterpreted on textual based forums. It shows just how careful one has to be and even then items can be misunderstood.

While yelrow, and I do not intend having a dig at you, is rightly concerened about some aspects of fixed thread help areas and that posts from experts are already helping members, I cannot disagree more with his views on that one. It has to be said that a lot of these questions are being asked many times and little referral is given to point folk in the direction of statements of help and advice already typed up several times. I have noticed some, like Fishy for a case in point, often refer folk to support and often threads via links, but these are times when a link to a single point on the forum would be useful to the vast majority of folk on here and especially, and more importantly, new members. Referring these people to the one thread, which maybe would be fixed, is far better and frees up everyone to talk about other things instead of offering the same advice which could well be convoluted over time.

The thread could well be added to, responsibly, with only added advice and new advice as technology adapts. The whole point there is when advice is given it should not be followed immediately with something like "I agree" or a comment suggesting a different tack where the original works well.

As for advice on certain AV programs I would say use what you like but not those with built in firewalls and those which are classed as aggressive like Norton or McAfee. Use your own and use them alongside the two other programs I have outlined and use the Windows firewall.

The laptop or PC you use for RM is your choice but do make sure it is CLEAN of spyware and malware which WILL interfere with the connections to the Internet and subsequently mean no RM getting through to support etc and your own USB ports even being blocked.

[Fishmanoz]

John, just going back to your standalone PC preference and preference for not having lots of technical advice, advice which is unintelligible to some. It is fair to say that new users and regulars on here have technical expertise or lack thereof over a wide range. We also know that AC for example is up at one end, while you tend to be at the other (I'm sure you realise I am not intending to be disrespectful in saying this). Not surprisingly, the advice which is appropriate for people will be different depending on where they sit on the spectrum. 

Another factor is that people come to ask on here at different stages. A few will start before they actually buy anything. Their first question might be "what is DCC", then "what is RM". Others have already bought an eLink set, found it is not as simple as they thought and come on here, see the problems others have been having and conclude the whole thing is a load of rubbish. And the more they think they have done everything they should, the harder it will be to convince them that maybe they haven't and there are still things to be done to get them going successfully. 

My point - different strokes for different folks, and a challenge to identify which stroke fits them and give good advice on it. 

[Yelrow]

fishy, hi,the fact that  we all do not state  our technical  qualifications on here, does not necessarily put  us in a box, or fit  us  somewhere on a scale. i dont think you can make those assumptions. The point i made, which you notice has gone unanswered, is what extra requirements , if any will be needed to encorporate  loco recognition..  I was saying that those about to buy a new machine, or about to use an old one, would  know whether or not it was up to the task. john

[idlemarvel]

@AugustusCaeser said:

"It has to be said that a lot of these questions are being asked many times and little referral is given to point folk in the direction of statements of help and advice already typed up several times. I have noticed some, like Fishy for a case in point, often refer folk to support and often threads via links, but these are times when a link to a single point on the forum would be useful to the vast majority of folk on here and especially, and more importantly, new members."

Isn't what you describe basically an FAQ list?  There is still a DCC FAQ list on the hornby web site:

https://www.hornby.com/support/hornby-digital

Perhaps one answer would be to have a Railmaster FAQ whch took the common questions on here and wrote them up with Hornby blessing into an official FAQ.  The forum could then be used for new issues.

[idlemarvel]

@yelrow, yes your question has still not been answered and I apologise if I have contributed to the "hijacking". Désolé

I have noticed in another thread that someone mentioned a second USB connection will be required for the loco recognition module.  It would be good to have this confirmed as I was going to buy a touch screen windows tablet (Asus) to run RM to replacing my aging netbook, but they only have one USB and I have read elsewhere you shouldn't use RM connected through a USB hub.

[Yelrow]

IDLEMARVEL, bonjour, it was hornby support that said about the usb hub, i have no problem with the  hijacking, but also had noticed on another forum, the possibilty of a second usb, which is one of the reasons for the question. That coupled with now usb 3. It would be interesting to know, how many of us have a second usb facility, should it be required. I return to my Custom built, idea. . also, i know of no tablet with 2 usb points. john

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

The Loco Detection module will need its own USB connection.  You will be able to add multiple module, and each one needs its own USB port although the average modeller will be able to use just one.

Running RailMaster on a tablet running Windows is not a good idea as we have had experience of tablets not running Windows 8 100% compatibly.  You would be better off with a small PC with plenty of connectivity and a touch screen monitor for the same, or lower price than a Windows 8 tablet.

Some Windows 8 tablets also dock into a keyboard, and that keyboard then provides a single USB port which again is non-standard.

[Yelrow]

HRMS, thank you very much, for this vital information. It is, what i was led to belive, which was why i wanted your early confirmation. My own laptop, only has 2 usb ports, and by ruling out a usb hub, means,  my first thought, is no mouse, hence your observation, about a touch screen.  This brings us nicely back to a designated RM, laptop, with plenty of connectivity, and a fast disc drive. Let us hope that the guys who recently bought new machines, have these facilities. Thanks again. john

[Yelrow]

Just before someone tells me i dont need an external mouse, with a laptop, in my particular case, given my hand dis ability, it is much easier to manage. john

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi John

I hate those pads on laptops, I always use a mouse, I prefer them.

PJ

[rpjallan]

Bluetooth wireless mouse?

[Yelrow]

PJ, agree, have you got enough usb s?    Rpjallan, hi, thanks , yes, but more expense, not of my making. john

[GarH]

@HRMS The Loco Detection module will need its own USB connection.  You will be able to add multiple module, and each one needs its own USB port although the average modeller will be able to use just one.

Hang on HRMS what other modules are planned in addition to Loco Detection or are you suggesting there will be a requirement for many modules depending on the size of the layout?  Fortunately the dedicated notebook I bought to use RM has 3 USB ports and all the required RAM, Hard Drive and 4core? Processor although its speed didn't get a very favourable reports in a test report.  Two are already taken up with eLink and the Voice Control Headset and mic.  It looks like with all the other problems concerning unwanted programmes running in the background affecting RM that things are going to get really complicated for the average enthusiast - even if you are pretty hot on the backup support you provide.  RM etc now needs to come with a big "Health" warning about what is and what is not required methinks?

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

It is not true that "RailMaster ... needs to come with a big Health warning".

There are users who have USB hubs and report no problems, however a number have and therefore the recommendation is that you should not use USB hubs - where possible.  The moment there is a comms problem the first question we ask is "Are you using a USB hub" and inevitibly this is the problem.  You will be aware that there are many cheap and nasty passive USB hubs on the market which cause all sorts of problems.  A high quality active (powered) USB hub should not cause problems.

Obvioulsy the more functionality you use with RailMaster, e.g. Voice control and Loco detection it is clear that you need more processing power, however you certainly do not need, say, a 6 core (or even quad core) CPU.

We test all RailMaster functions on PCs which are upto 10 years old and running XP (as a quarter of PC users still use XP) and it works fine, with Voice Control and our Loco Detection testbed.

There needs to be balance and making irresponsible statements like RailMaster needs to come with a big health warning is, and we apologise, misleading and nonsense and no user should read that comment and take it seriously.

[RDS]

@@HRMS

Thank you for your latest post clarifying the situation regarding PC requirements.  

I was concerned at the way this thread was heading because I was sure that RM would not have been designed such that it would not be useable on the PC that people already own.

[Yelrow]

RDS, this is not quite the case. How does anybody know what pc you already own. As can be seen from the thread, ideal  marvel, would have had a problem, i have a problem. It is pretty obvious the way technology moves that the more requirements of the software, means more up to date computers. You have a desktop, so no problem, as you will have ample usb ports. The dedicated notebook Gar H, bought, luckely has 3 , mine, as many other laptops, only has 2.. I was aware of the need for additional usb, which was one of the reasons i  asked the question. How could you be sure that RM would drop in to machines already owned. Tablets are going to be a problem. I would be interested to know, as i am sure Hornby would, how many of us at this point in time, A use desktops, B use laptops, and of those, how many only have 2 usb s.. People just coming on board, need to know what the minimum specs, are now, and are they likely to increase, so that they can plan accordingly. I have no criticism, of the product, at all, its very good, but i might not have felt the same, had i just bought a new machine with insufficient ports. john

[RB51]

Maybe a short (30 day) online poll could be arranged by HMRS to see how big the issue might be? You only need to know type of machine (PC / Laptop / Notebook / Tablet) approx. age of machine and number of USB ports. This would help clarify for Hornby whether their benchmarking was sufficient or not. R-

[tony_forward]

two year old laptop running windows 7, 2 usb ports - one for elink and one for the mouse - like others I dislike the touchpad. 4 gb ram 320 gb hd.

The layout lives in the garage so using my desktop is not an option out there or for transporting around.

As for a dedicated pc/laptop for the trains, not financially an option as it would be with others I suspect.

[RobOO]

This isn't the right place to post this really but I'm using a dedicated 3 year old laptop with 2 USB ports. I'm also having a bit of a mare with RM/com ports needing to be reinstalled daily it seems. I will look at it again tomorrow and Support have been good and the next step is they will remotely "play" with my laptop.

I for one think a dedicated Hornby PC for a couple of hundred quid that did work RM out of the box would be fine. This is an expensive hobby and a couple of sound fitted locos would be more expensive let alone putting together a couple of rakes of coaches for them to pull.

[Fishmanoz]

People seem to have not taken on board HRMS's statement:

"A high quality active (powered) USB hub should not cause problems."

Surely this puts the USB problem to bed?  And logically it can't be otherwise as PCs with lots of USB connectors effectively have an internal hub that is no different to a good external one. 

And I thought we'd known for some time that the LD module was going to need a USB connection?  Just look at what's in the LD tab in RM Setup to see what I mean. That also goes with our knowing that a module will handle only up to 24 detectors. That would seem to be quite a lot for the average layout but if yours is large or you think you will need more detectors than that, then you are going to need another module with its own USB connection too.

On my laptop, I have 3 USBs. To these, including a hub, I have connected a mouse receiver, 3 external hard drives and a cable for connecting my iPhone/iPad for charging and synchronising. Add a DCC controller and one LD module and that's 7 USBs I need. That is quite impractical without a good hub. But then as HRMS says, this isn't a problem. 

Even with HRMS saying you will need a dual core processor to run RM with VR, this covers most of the computers still in use, apart from the oldest net books still around. Even with a little more processing required for LD, I believe computing power is rapidly becoming a non-issue. 

I'm not saying don't specify the minimum needed, in fact such information should come with the product and its marketing information. What I am saying is that for the vast majority, it won't be an issue, with the possible exception of needing to buy a good USB hub. 

[GarH]

Oh Fishy what would we do without your input to this Forum.  What you have outlined is all new to me and probably a whole host of other new enthusiasts embarking on RM and its constituent existing and future components.  I have read the 1.56 guide - remember it was me who was fortuitous enough to download it before it came to be officially issued - and I can't see anything about Loco Detection module will needing its own USB connection let alone being able to add multiple module - well not in the guide.  Haven't really had time to delve into other sources of information as too busy coming to terms with Voice Control.  But thanks for confirming what HRMS say.

[GarH]

Basically I think it would be a good idea from a marketing point of view for Hornby to fully publish minimum specifications for not only RM, VC Headset and Mic and whatever as it was only by chance really that I bought a dedicated RM Notebook that had the right specs and would have been really fed up having bought it without to find I couldn't then use VC without some additional hardware.  They don't have to recommend a specific make or model just lock into this forum a recommended minimum specs for all the non techy enthusiasts.  Also some guidance on how to dispose of all those unwanted programmes, but what is an unwanted programme?  Unless you really know what you are doing it could do more harm than good deleting something that you think is superfluous only to find the machine won't run properly when you boot it up again.  I've had enough problems with my Vista Desktop deleting things let alone play around with Windows 8.  Still resisting suggestions from MS to upgrade to 8.1 by the way.  Thanks for info anyway

[Yelrow]

Fishy, a high quality etc etc , SHOULD  NOT cause problems, not will not, might not. Mine did, i had to remove it in order to get things to work . It most certainly does not put  the usb problem to bed. Lets not sweep things under the carpet. if we can afford sound locos, as was said above, we can afford to get things right. HRMS, have made excellent suggestions of what would bea  suitable spec, in order to run all things. Augustus, i am sure could put a price on this. Lets  find out, for the sake of us and newcomers, it could take some pressure of the help desk as well. john