Quick question about the programing track

[CornishJim]

I have had an idea that some of you might of done already. Instead of having a seperate piece of track for programing, I thought about isolating a siding with the plastic fishplates and wiring up 2 feeds to it via a switch, one for normal track power and one for the programing feed , I cant see any reason why it wouldn't work but I thought i'd ask the question anyway.

[Yelrow]

Hi Jim, do not go down this road. keep  totally away from main track. i would even go as far as taking out track feed, when you programme ; There is a possibility, that any locos on your track, when you change cvs, could be affected, and also change. If you look back on threads, you will find this recommended. If this is the way you want to go, remove all locos from all tracks, when programming, just dont forget, and leave any on. john

[Yelrow]

Jim, you see, we have different views already. john

[PJ_model_trains]

Although you can do it Jim, it is not advisable.

 

Some have had problems with CV's changing on track when one is being programmed on the program track.

 

Best advice, I think, is keep them separate and disconnect power to track when using program track

 

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Some people on this forum have had problems with train CV's changing on track, when a train is being programmed on the program track.

Although you can do it Jim, it is probably therefore not advisable but, the decision is yours.

 

[walkingthedog]

If the section is totally isolated and the programming and power feed go through one switch so that only one feed is connected to the isolated section at one time I would say with my wiring knowledge (I'm not DCC) it would be OK. 

Just make sure for belt and braces reasons that the section of track is only long enough for one loco...........just in case.

[RB51]

When I started out with DCC I got advice - on another forum - that directed me to use a seperate programming track. That way there is absolutely no possibility of programming anything other than what is on the programming track. I just know that if I changed my programming methods now - I would forget one day and everything would end up with the same code. Then I'd have to look up things to remember what they were in the first place, and then I'd have to remember where the note was, and then I'd have to find my glasses........ Not worth it. R-

[CornishJim]

Ha ha, talk about can of worms!!!

 

Well seeing as I only have 6 loco's at the moment I am goimg to give it a go, I didnt know it was advised to take all other locos of the main track when programming on the program track, so i've never done it and never had any problems. I just wanted to be able to leave all my trains on the track once I have 'finished' the layout and it looks odd having a seperate piece of track not connected to anything.

[St1ngr4y]

I have had an idea that some of you might of done already. Instead of having a seperate piece of track for programing, I thought about isolating a siding with the plastic fishplates and wiring up 2 feeds to it via a switch, one for normal track power and one for the programing feed , I cant see any reason why it wouldn't work but I thought i'd ask the question anyway.

Hi Jim,

I have my programming track as a siding from the main layout, connected by a pair of plastic rail joiners. I power the siding track via a 6-way 2-pole rotary switch. I have one position for "operational" whereby I can drive a loco into the siding from the main layout. The second position is "programming" so that I can read or change cv's if necessary. I have a third position which connects the track to a DC controller. I don't need to use this much any more since I have converted all of the older loco's I want to DCC.

I even thought of having another switch position so that I could provide DC power to the siding from a "stationary" DCC loco decoder. This is so that I could see how a DC loco would perform under DCC, without actually fitting the decoder into the loco.

The unused rotary switch positions are used just to switch off the siding completely.

Ray

[walkingthedog]

Having said what I said, I personally would have a separate programming track mounted on a nice piece of 3 X 3/4" timber with a piece of wood each end to stop the loco falling off should it decide to leap forward or backward. You could then programme a loco away from the layout if you wanted to. 

[Graskie]

I always use just a spare length of loose track for programming, which I can remove from the layout top quite easily and quickly when not using it, although I don't generally bother to do so. I really can't see how other locos on your railway can be affected, because there is no way programming instructions should be able to reach them. I just would not want the effort and inconvenience of taking them all off anyway. Occasionally you need to have a reasonable length of programming track available for programming two motor unit ends of the same diesel train, such as the Midland Pullman, for instance. You can, of course, deal with them separately but you might just as well kill two birds with one stone.

[poliss]

The reason given for not using a siding for programming is that you might accidentally drive a loco from the main track onto the siding while your controller is in programming mode and blow the output. http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#d2

[CornishJim]

poliss, I am rubbish at doing more than one thing at a time!! So all trains would be stopped anyway, if i had left the swith in the'prg mode' and drove a train onto that siding it would stop and as I would not be in any prog menu it would not harm the train. I will wire in a couple of flashing beacon led's so that when that siding is in 'prog mode' it would be flashing both on near the actual siding point and on my switch board near the switch, i might even have a powerd gate connected too!

[Yelrow]

Its just so much simpler to keep it seperate  john

[poliss]

That's fine if you have the room for a seperate programming track. I don't. My controllers don't have seperate programming outputs either. I just use a section between a two sets of points for programming.

Websites say you have to gap both rails. I don't understand this. Why not just the one? My knowledge of electrickery says you can't have an electrical circuit if there's a break in one side.

[2e0dtoeric]

I have a totally stand-alone section of track on a block of wood, with end-stops, as does (I think)WTD.

It has a couple of cross-pieces on it, like feet, so it can stand anywhere without falling over. It is also handy for checking coupling heights (K-dee's) and fault-finding, or checking a dc loco prior to converting.

If/when I am programming something, I just disconnect the main layout from the controller. That way there is no need to remove or handle any loco's.

[walkingthedog]

I don't have DCC 2e0 but I used to have a six foot length of similar timber with two lengths of OO and two of N gauge flexi on it to  test my OO and my dads N locos.

It has since been reduced to 15 inches of OO for my rolling road. 

[PJ_model_trains]

Ha ha, talk about can of worms!!!

 

Well seeing as I only have 6 loco's at the moment I am goimg to give it a go, I didnt know it was advised to take all other locos of the main track when programming on the program track, so i've never done it and never had any problems. I just wanted to be able to leave all my trains on the track once I have 'finished' the layout and it looks odd having a seperate piece of track not connected to anything.

 

Hi Jim, you have not opened a can of worms. 

 

None of us would not want to take all our trains off the track when programming on the program track.....    You don't have to!!!

 

Just remove the two wires that connect to your elink or controller and your track is dead. Do what you have to with the program track then add your wires back to your controller.

 

Everything on your main track remains where it was you have just disconnected power to the track for the programming period.

 

As Roger aid, if you want 'to be absolutely sure' you have no problems when writing CV's disconnect your power to track. 

 

PJ

[Graskie]

As I said earlier, I cannot possibly see how a programming output can interfere with anything on the main track if you have totally separate feeds to each. If it happens, there must be a fault with the Elite, eLink or RM, surely? Can anyone give an example of this having actually happened?

[CornishJim]

I dont see the point of physically unpluging the track power when the switch is in effect doing exactly that, if the part of the track you are using to programme on is isolated with plastic fishplates. plastic does not conduct electricity and nor does a switch thats not thrown in that particular position,

[PJ_model_trains]

As I said earlier, I cannot possibly see how a programming output can interfere with anything on the main track if you have totally separate feeds to each. If it happens, there must be a fault with the Elite, eLink or RM, surely? Can anyone give an example of this having actually happened?

 

Hi Graskie

 

I agree 100% with what you say but, it has been raised on this forum that people have in some cases experiences CV's change on track when programming a CV on the program track. Why I do not know.

 

I read in a message in this thread that another forum has also said disconnect power from the main track when programming. Two separate sources have made the same statement.

 

For a person to remove the power takes seconds, it reduces any chance of a problem.

 

On the forum we just supply the facts, some maybe for and some maybe against a topic, differences of opinion based on technical data where available, specialists recommendations where available and peoples experiences, the person can than make their own decision.

 

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

I dont see the point of physically unpluging the track power when the switch is in effect doing exactly that, if the part of the track you are using to programme on is isolated with plastic fishplates. plastic does not conduct electricity and nor does a switch thats not thrown in that particular position,

Hi Jim

See message above to Graskie

I totally understand what you are saying

It's your call

Good luck with your layout and enjoy ;o)

PJ

[CornishJim]

Well I will be under the bored doing some re wiring over the next few days, and I am going to wire in the switch, so I will keep you posted if I blow everything up or not ! lol

[Howhoward7]

Well I will be under the bored doing some re wiring over the next few days, and I am going to wire in the switch, so I will keep you posted if I blow everything up or not ! lol

Hi Jim 

I had a problem with a DCC controller because of the use of a DPDT change over switch that did not have a centre off. The problem was that the track output was momentarily fed to the programing track output which and that damaged the controller.

I was advised by the kind supplier who fixed the controller to use a totally seperate piece of track about 18 inches long and only connect it when required.

If you can't be persuaded not to use a switch then please use one with a centre off.

Howard

 

[Augustus Caesar]

Well, I read all these posts and some agree to use separate track, some just isolate etc and some vow that others have blown their arms off and CV's have changed when both programming and track wires are connected to the correct sockets on Elite or eLink.

 

No-one has actually said that those who may have issues may have had a wiring problem they don't even know they had and that may be why they have issues. It could be other things too of course so I don't think it is as simple as that.. If your cables are correctly connected to the right ports and correct track there is no issue that can arrive as circuits for these do NOT cross inside the boxes for the Elite or eLink. If effects are being experienced then there is some other cause. One that cannot be foreseen or forecast by us. So, in conclusion, it is perfectly safe to do a track with isolators in place etc.

 

Just thought I'd add a little subtle difference to the sides of the debate. :-)