Have I wasted my money on DCC?

[Cronan]

Has DCC really caught on? why is there so few dcc fitted locomotives and why are the dcc forums very quite? not just here but others.

It is still so so much cheaper to go analog and you can still do a lot with analog.

Why was it maketed like it was gonna be very popular? are there ny statistics to prove it is more popular or have the nodel population still use it.

dcc concepts site says in the future all locos will be fitted (in there 10 good reasons to dcc page) this never happened.

Has nmra/lenz failed? as it was suppose to be control everything from on controller with 2 wires from the track. Its not like that.

It looks like to me its dying out. I hasn't there been a new post on here in 17 hours other forums only have subforums which are very quite.

I'm worried I've been taken for a fool :-( especialy the marketeers and nmra/lenze. I tried to write a good post on another forum cause its not really based at hornby but that post suddenly vanished as I nearly finnished writing it whisch was very suspect so I wrote another post which I swore (regretably) now I cant delete.

So can anybody reassure me that dcc is here to stay and is very popular not that I wan't analog to die out I don't I might go back to it. It's just the way its marketed yet its still expensive.

[Jimbo1707820979]

I sympathise with you. My experience with DCC so far has been dismal. My Select Controller, just "upgraded" by Hornby is acting like a computer with a bad virus, simply crazy. I shall look forward to seeing some replies to your post from experts in the field. I am also posting comments of my own. Kind regards and best of luck (seems we need it !)

[Rocketcooper2000]

wow.. well I dont know what to say .. DCC is the way forward- the benefits are incredible . sound, lights, Locos controlled like a real Loco.. It has really taken off with a plain dc layout now a rareity.. not to to say that I have anything against dc , we all grew up on it but the world moves on and modernises..some stay put some move on..

I would strongly disagree about some of your observations re populairty.  I dont know know anything about Hornbys controllers - I use a Dynamis. Other than burning a few decoders[my own fault] Iv never had a problem,

Quite frankly I couldnt live without the capabilities of DCC sound. Its a differnt world..

Let us know what problems you are having- Im sure there are plenty of people here more expert than me who will solve the problem for you ..

Rocket Orange

[St1ngr4y]

Cronan & JimboPuff obviously haven't tried Railmaster yet. This software enhances DCC a hundredfold, in my opinion.

Ray

[Yelrow]

How interesting, WTD, and LC&DR, will read this with interest, being DC men. Me well i have 85%, DC, and 15 % DCC. Lets say first of all, that there could be 2 reasons, for this forum, being quieter. Due to a lot of unwarrented critiscism, several posters have left, although, they will be back. The second reason could be the success of DCC, thereby, people have no reason to post and/ or ask questions. In the case of hornby, they must be delighted with their TTS locos, that have brought sound to the masses , at affordable prices, me included. Bachmann, produce many dcc fitted locos, as opposed to DCC ready, but, with hornby, we can fit whatever decoder we prefer. I have no problem with that. I accept that this post, has been written , tongue in cheek, or i hope it has. The  two markets, will continue to flourish, as many of us ,are too far down the DC road to contemplate, a costly switch, even if we were , so minded, and the DCC brigade, have turned modelling, into tech engineering, by fitting decoders into every old engine they can lay there hands on, even venturing into my 3 rail locos, a trait i despair at. No doubt these tech guys can give you far more facts than i can, about the present, and the future, but for me, for me, i am, and will be a DC man, dabbling in his declining years, in new technology, much the same as i have a kindle, and an ipad, learning as i go along. Have i wasted my money, well, in the first place, it was mine, to waste. If i could not have afforded it, i would still be without DCC. You wait for Blue train, controleable from your mobile. This is the next fad, but i will NOT, be trying that. As fishy would say, to sum up, I would  not have known about/ joined any forum, without DCC, I have gained a lot of knowledge, made a few friends, and am the better for it, more tolerant, and patient. My wife, would say, for what DCC, has cost me, it was a small price to pay, for getting me out of her hair, locked away upstairs. She would. however, appreciate me allowing her occasional use of her main computer. thats all. john

[The son of Triangman]

DCC is here to stay. All depends on how in depth you want to go and the size of your bank balance, if you have a large collection of locos it can be quite expensive to "chip" them all. You can just use DCC to run consists, sound and lights etc, or you can go as far as computer control which can be very very boring when it is all set up. It's up to you how far you want to take DCC.  You haven't wasted your money but have joined the computer techie digital world, it's up to you how in depth you take DCC. I've seen boring DCC layouts where all the operator does is sit, drink tea and read a newspaper for hours whilst a pc runs their layout, and periodically put their paper down and show others their layout running on their mobile phones, that's not for me, I've also seen other DCC layouts where people have prefered to use their DCC control units in a more traditional way and there has been more fun in it with shunting taking place rather than trains just rattling around a line.

As for a plain DC layouts being a rarity, that's rubbish, go to a toy fair and look at just how many locos are there without decoders, the majority of them will be plain old DC.  DC has been making a big comeback the last two years as retro 1950's, 60's and 70's model layouts are now very much the latest thing and in high fashion and people want their layouts to have the control systems that match that time period which is DC. If anything DCC is now as "old hat" as DC.

It's up to you, my advice is if you have DCC and it's working for you go with it but don't take the fun out of running your railway. If DCC isn;t working for you and you like DC better then use DC.  The idea of a model railway is to be the signalman, the level crossing gate keeper, the shunter, the station master, the driver, the fireman. You run your railway the way you want but never take the fun of running it, out.

I'm not anti DCC it has it;s place, I run a small DCC layout for instance but I run a much bigger DC layout as I like the operating complexity that mimicks real railways.

[The son of Triangman]

Yelrow has hit it on the head when he says "The two markets, will continue to flourish".

DCC and DC are here to stay. Each must choose what suits them. Some of the DCC brigade will try to force feed you DCC, tell you DCC is the future, the in thing and say DC is dead but both live quite happily.

[Chrissaf]

It is true that this hobby in the main requires deep pockets, but:

.

• Coaches and Wagons cost the same whether DC or DCC
• Track costs the same whether DC or DCC
• Scenery costs the same whether DC or DCC
• Wiring costs the same within reason whether DC or DCC
• Scenic lighting costs the same whether DC or DCC
• DCC Ready locos cost the same whether DC or DCC (excluding decoder - see below).
• Ignoring DCC Sound for the moment, the loco decoder only adds about £20 to the cost of a loco.
• Comparing something like a Guagemaster 4 channel DC controller to a DCC one is not a huge cost saving.
• True, DCC Point control can add about £8-£12 per point to the costs.

.

So all in all, if starting out from scratch on a new build. I personally don't see the cost difference being that great. Unless one goes down the DCC Sound route, then costs do increase significantly. But as the saying goes "you get what you pay for". Obviously for someone who has been running an existing DC layout for some time, the upgrade costs and disruption can then be significant.

.

Prior to taking up this hobby two years ago. My experience of model trains was a DC set as a child. I think I can say categorically, I wouldn't have re-kindled my interest in model trains if it hadn't been for DCC and computer control being available. I was definitely drawn to the possibilities this new control method brought to the hobby.

[The son of Triangman]

Costs when starting out from scratch are as crissaf rightly says more or less even, DC probably has it slightly on cost as there are more s/h DC locos out there than DC but it's academic. As has been said adding decoders to a large DC fleet will be expensive as will point control costs to a large DC layout.

If you go DCC sound a lot of the locos don't sound like the real thing due to speaker size and restrictions of the sound decoder, you can get a reasonable approximation of the sound but not totally faithful. DC has it's problems with wiring complexity and limitations on such things as consists, etc.

Both DC and DCC are popular, there is no overall winner.

[Cronan]

I did start dcc when I changed from n gauge to OO with the idea that everything was gonna be dcc controlled I should of done my home work first the cost of an accesory decoder is about £40 and only controls 4 points then there is I hear so much about decoders blown and people saying " you need the more expensive ones" well the so called decent ones are about £40 each.

I was thinking about buying a decent and high quality dcc controller it was the lenz set lh 90 the cheapest I could get it is about £240 and that doesnt even come with the transformer. So I tried to look at the specs of this controller and that was confusing cause originall it said only 8 functions even the select can do 9.

But what I'm gonig to do is start again in analogue as my layout is only small I've taken it down cause I didn't realy start that  much on it.

 I really liked the j15 from Hornby and its made my mind up of small steam locos only so my layout is only gonna have 4 or 5 maybe 7 points. So Im going to start from there and see how I go on analog as my mind is made up on locos I want and rolling stock. I've still got lots of track and stuff.

Good replies though. I must admit I seemed a bit miserable lol.

[2e0dtoeric]

Cronan wrote - but that post suddenly vanished as I nearly finnished writing it  - to me, that says that your COMPUTER is faulty! A post you haven't sent cannot vanish unless you deleted it, because nobody else knows it exists!

Are you operatng your Lenz via the computer?

 

All my layout is DCC and about 50% sound-fitted, only one loco is TTS. I cannot comment on Lenz equipment, as I've never used it, my controller is an Elite, and I've had no bother with it at all, except the usual updating false starts, eventually overcome. I've never blown a decoder chip, and I've not had any loco's run wild. (Taps head!)

The usual cause of erratic functioning in DCC is bad track joints or dirt.

[poliss]

DCC has been around for 23 years now and isn't going to disappear.

The last statistics I saw, around 5 years ago, showed DC and DCC had around a 50/50 share.

The reason you don't see many DCC fitted locos is that most people would rather fit their own choice of decoder.

You can get accessory decoders that can control 8 points.

The higher spec. decoders cost around £1.00 more than the Hornby standard decoder.

The Lenz LH90 isn't a complete control system. it's just an extra hand held controller that plugs into an existing DCC controller. The Lenz Start Set 90 is the full system which comes with a transformer and can control 29 loco functions.

You can run a DCC layout with only two wires. Many people do. It's just a good idea to add extra feeders because of the electrical unreliability of rail joiners. The same thing is true for DC too.

 

I did post a reply earlier, but it timed out and was never to be seen again. :-o

[Fazy]

Don't mention blue tooth. 

 

 

 

Doh that's done it

[Wobblinwheel]

To me, one of the main advantages to DCC over DC is the constant power to the locos and (lighted) coaches. As all American locos have lights, DCC is a clear advantage, as the lights are controllable whether the engine is moving or not. DCC-switchable smoke is a plus also. On DC, a smoker only works well when the loco is travelling way too fast. I like my locos to smoke sitting still (those so equipped). In my opinion, if either format is "on the way out", it would clearly be DC. I can see a future where most, if not all, model locos will be DCC-equipped from the factory, as the cost of a "basic" chip is becoming almost negligible. I can see a "socket" in new loco's existing strictly to add sound. Once DCC was "plug 'n play". The future will bring "plug 'n play" sound. DCC will be standard. Except for children's "Christmas" sets, maybe.

[Wobblinwheel]

I forgot to mention that lighted coaches really aren't worth a "toot" without DCC. When my train "creeps" in or out of the station, I don't want DARK coaches!

[Teedoubleudee]

DCC does not have to be expensive. For instance, there are loads of DC locos around on eBay just now (UK). I bought a couple at the weekend listed as non-runners. I received one yesterday, stripped it down and serviced it, fitted a £10 decoder and now have a lovely new addition to my DCC stock for just over £20 and a couple of hours work!

[brando]

Teedoubleudee is correct, you either understand DCC or you do not.

[Yelrow]

Brando, surely thats why we have a DCC section, on this forum. I dont for one minute belive that everybody who buys dcc, understands it. Thats like saying you either understand computers, or you dont. When i bought the Majestic, DCC set, i knew zero about DCC. Some on here, would say, that has not changed. I dont think TEED, said as much. The ability to use a soldering iron, is only a small part of the understanding. . He is much better at that part, than i am. john

[Cronan]

Sorry guys when I started this thread I was feeling a bit down. It's the advertising which gets me they make it sound like you dont need any point motors and controll everything with just 2 wires. Also I watch a youtube video (intercity82) and he said he was gonna wait for something else to come along cause he said he didnt want to by anything expensive just in case it gets obsolette in a short time which nearly enforced my fears cause my experience with PCs they get obsolete quicky and thats what I was worried about. I do realise now that dcc has been around a long time and it is here to stay.

As for understanding dcc I think DC is a straight line and AC is a squigley line and dcc is not AC? Its certainly confusing but wiring can be easier?

Anyway to put things in a positive prospective I intend to still stick with DCC as I was looking how to wire up point motors in an anologue way its not quite as easy as I thought where as DCC seems easier.

In a couple of weeks time Im gonna try again when I get the money. You see I have got an e-link but didn't really use it as its on my old pc and I'm still using my old monitor on my new one. I will make do with my select for the time being.

[poliss]

DCC is AC, but it's not quite the same as the AC in your house. Some will tell you that DCC is a 'Bipolar DC signal', but that's absolute rubbish. Bipolar DC means it's AC.

Wiring is easier because you don't need isolated sections. You can isolate sections if you like, to make fault finding easier, but it's your choice.

Unlike PCs, everything is still backwards compatible.

[Robespierre]

DCC is excellent and should be the only start point for newbies imho.

I can't see why you would buy analogue other than to add to an existing set, given what DCC offers. It's prehistoric in comparison.

I suspect the real question is whether Hornby have moved control on sufficiently e.g. through exploiting wireless technologies and whether the resulting overall functionality proposition is what it should be.

Plug and play wireless points; ditto turntables, lifting bridges, level crossings, station announcements,  you name it. All doable.

Crying out for proper slick app control and ease of accessing more complex features too. 

 

 

 

 

[edgehill_road]

I think a lot depends on how Bachmann market their new method of controlling trains which is by remote control, you just have to fit this bit of electronic wizadry into your loco, download an app and use your phone to run trains, marketed cheaply it could spell the end of DCC as we know it.

[Bulleidboy]

I think a lot depends on how Bachmann market their new method of controlling trains which is by remote control, you just have to fit this bit of electronic wizadry into your loco, download an app and use your phone to run trains, marketed cheaply it could spell the end of DCC as we know it.

Now this does sound like a gimmick. Never in a million years would I want to run my railway with a phone. 

 

 

[2e0dtoeric]

I'd need to purchase one of these gimmick phones, first. My mobie does talking and text, which is all I need it for! Trains should be controlled by some sort of acellerator knob or lever, not a swipe-card or ultra-touchy touch-screen gizmo.

[Fishmanoz]

The name is BlueRail and while it may get some or a lot of traction as an alternative system, I don't think it's about to replace DC or DCC anytime soon.

 

The way it works is by a bluetooth link (hence the name) from an app on your smartphone or tablet to a decoder in your loco which also contains a Bluetooth receiver. It gets its power from your track being powered, either DC or DCC.  That's about all we know in summary.  Beyond that currently, it is vapourware. 

 

If if you are currently running DC, you will still have the problem of fitting a decoder into all of your locos, assuming they sell decoders separately (I think unlikely in the first instance as they will get a bigger return on a fitted loco than a decoder).  And you will have limited ability to run with your DC system because when you stop your DC loco, you cut the power to your Bluerail loco too.

 

if you are running DCC, then you can run both together as your DCC track is always live but, given you already have DCC control gear, why run 2 systems that don't talk to each other?

 

If you are new, it may give a cost advantage starting out due to not buying a controller, but don't forget you are stuck with a single decoder supplier trying to get a return on initial investment in a new system, so your cost advantage may soon evaporate.  But don't forget the gimmick aspect for older people may in fact be a big attraction to pull the young into the hobby.

 

Me?  I won't be holding my breath.