LCDR

The standard answer is "what people are prepared to pay". Condition is vitally important, as too is whether you have an original box, and its condition. Rare colours can add a bit to the value to a collector, but that isn't always guaranteed. In the UK basic blue TC carriages have been fetching between £5 and £15, later versions in excellent condition in original box might fetch £30. The models manufactured overseas will be priced differently, but the prices are not available here.

The Australian made stock differs in many ways to the coaches sold in the UK, so hopefully Australian Triang collectors will come forward with a definitive answer. The blue coaches made by Margate first appeared in 1958 and were simply blue coloured versions of the silver ones which appeared first in 1954. In 1962 a new design appeared from Margate which were available simultaneously in green, blue or silver and red. These were also turned out in Trans-Australia livery (Blue, or Silver and Red), NSWR in silver, VR in blue, and also some Canadian and USA liveries. Former USA liveries surplus in the States were sold in Australia too. In the UK the blue first series usually had two thin blue lines. There were also variations in roof colours, with the blue cars available with either blue or grey roofs. White lining is rare. A shorter version was also sold in Australia but were not available in the UK.

Good to be back. Best wishes to all the members on here.

I agree with ColinB that the paint finish suggests that the blemishes occurred before the livery was applied. I have a few of these carriages myself in that livery and I cannot say I have observed this on mine.

/media/tinymce_upload/ac884381db674017bb7c4a671ab00692.jpg Does this picture help?

The LMS continued to build Midland Railway cattle wagons which were 19 feet 1 inch over headstocks and had 11 foot wheelbase. They allocated diagram D1661 to these and most had timber underframes. Superficially these were similar to the Triang model.These had external timber framing to the body. Later ones to similar dimensions but with steel underframes were allocated diagram D1840. A new type of LMS cattle van appeared in 1935 which still had 11 feet wheelbase but was reduced to 18 feet 6 inches over headstocks.Diagram D1944 was issued to cover this. The framing of the body changed from timber to steel, but timber sheeting was kept for sides ands ends. BR built more of these in 1950 before adopting the GWR design wagon as a standard type. The Triang diecast underframe was a generic design which was also used under the horse box, and the first type of GW guards van, and subsequently adapted for for use under the Cemflo . The Hornby plastic version was introduced at about the time the Cemflo appeared and this has been used under a variety of freelance wagons. The brake linkage is loosely based on the LNER version with twin V hangers on one side.

The wartime Pool arrangement is as 5Dublo2 has reported. The Petroleum Board 'pooled' the wagon fleet so that one company could load the wagon belonging to another. Most tank wagons retained their owners livery but if a repaint was necessary the Pool livery was applied. At the same time the Air Ministry obtained a large fleet of 14 ton oil tank wagons to supply aviation fuel to the aerodromes which were being opened to accomodate the bombers flying from eastern England. The concept of pooling also applied to railway company owned wagons before Nationalisation. Certain 'common user' types like vans and open merchandise wagons when received and unloaded at a station could be re-loaded on another railway to the one who owned it. Not all types were covered by this and a 'foreign' wagon which was 'non-pool' had to be returned empty to the owning railway. In 1939 all privately owned wagons, except tank wagons, were requisitioned for the duration of the War. Wagons which were designed for special types of traffic were exempt from this and were designated 'Non-Pool' . These tended to work on special circuits between loading point and destination, and had to be returned empty once unloaded, much as happened for railway owned 'non-pool' types. When the railways were Nationalised after the War the requisitioned wagons were taken into BR stock and the original owners received compensation. The small number on 'Non-Pool' wagons remained in private ownership and of course the tank wagons were released by the Petroleum Board and returned to the oil companies. which became Non-Pool as well. The former Air Ministry tanks were shared out to the Oil Companies and were absorbed into their fleets. Modern private owners,those introduced after 1960, are also 'Non-pool' and the proportion of Private Owner wagons to Railway Owned has increased to such a point that they are now in the majority.

Hornby Dublo improved the 2-6-4T when the two rail version 2218 was introduced. in 1959. The biggest improvement is the profile of the chimney which was always a bit crude on the EDL18. The shape looks much better on 2218 and 3218. EDL18 paint job was also a bit crude too, the old BR emblem was distorted and the lining was too thick. 2218 and 3218 were given finer lining out and the BR emblem was updated to the post 1957 BR crest. This greatly improved the appearance of the model. Similar improvements were carried out to all the Hornby Dublo locomotives at that time. The green Duchess of Montrose 4-6-2 body was altered so that the curved footplate in front of the cylinders was removed and the divided footplate substituted instead. (Other improvements were also carried out) The name was altered to City of London for the two rail model and City of Liverpool for the three rail one. The latest BR London Midland red livery was applied to these. The A4 got a double chimney in 1958 I believe, when it changed from Silver King to Mallard / Golden Fleece. The Castle and the 8F 2-8-0 were provided with ringfield motors although appearance wise this was a retrograde step as the motors filled the cab, but it did improve performance. The three rail versions after 1959 - 1961 were made in much smaller numbers, Hornby Dublo actively promoting two rail instead, so the three rail models are much more scarce which bumps up the value to collectors. As a matter of interest Ramsey 9th edition lists EDL18 as £70 - £120 in good to mint boxed condition, 2218 £100 - £140 , and 3218 £450 - £600 !

All this is excellent stuff, but unless the kettle has less than six or more than ten wheels it is quite unlikely that we will get a new loco! 😆

The original question concerned the Western Region, which raises an interesting observation. The Great Western Railway had a saying that there was the Wrong Way and there was the Great Western Way, and they certainly liked to do things in their own way at Swindon., This attitude survived down the years and when I worked on the Eastern Region it was reasonably easy to agree how things should be done with the Scottish Region, the Southern Region and most of the time with the London Midland Region the boys from Paddington always wanted to do something different (I probably exagerate) . However when modernisation was in vogue Swindon initially looked at Gas Turbine power for main line locomotives, and built two , and then when these proved to be somewhat unreliable they chose hydraulic transmission over electric for their diesels when the Southern and London Midland had already got some diesel electric prototypes proving that this was really the best way forward. The Western Region steadfastly clung to lower quadrent semaphore signals when everyone else adopted the simpler upper quadrant type.

Most model railways require a compromise, and unless you are one of those priviledged few who have unlimited space you have to adopt a train and platform length which is likely to be considerably shorter that real life. My layout is in a shed 16 x 8 and I can just about get a six coach train in, which is about half of what I would love to have but I have to put up with it.

Automatic coupling is useful here. However you do need some means of reaching in with the skyhook because the automatic couplings don't always do what you want. A removable section of roof is probably a good idea. Most station overall roofs are made of glass, although realistically if your layout is in the steam era the glass was nearly always black and opaque. One way of stopping in the right place which I have used in the past was to have an insulated section of rail near the buffer stops which had a diode across the joint which would only allow a train to reverse off that last bit of railway. If that section was as long as your longest locomotive you should avoid buffer stop collisions. I have also heard of photo electric cells being used so as soon as the train runs over it it lights a lamp via a relay. How you do it in DCC I am afraid is technology too advanced for me.

I posted something yesterday, but it has been moderated for profanity despite there not being any offensive words or phrases. In 1958 classes which became BR classes 15, 16 and 20 were all concentrated in East London on cross London freight or on the WCML . None at that time ever wandered onto the Western Region. 1958 was right at the beginning of the introduction of diesels . As has already been said the GWR introduced a fleet of 38 diesel railcars which were intended for branch lines and there were still about 25 in service in 1958. Hornby has made a model of the later more angular version (formerly made by Lima) together with the parcel varient. It isn't in the current catalogue. The GW also built a few of the common 0-6-0 diesel electric shunters but these were not used on passenger services. In 1958 there were four of the A1A A1A type diesel hydraulic Warshiop class and the first of the B-B version which became the BR class 42. These were exclusively for main line express trains and would never find their way on to branch lines. BR had also introduced a fleet of Gloucester C&W built single unit railcars and a handful of A C Cars four wheel railbuses that year but these have never been made by Hornby, although another manufacturer makes the railbus. The first diesel locomotive that might have worked Western Region branch lines was introduced in 1959, which was the NB B-B diesel hydraulic which eventually became the BR class 22, D6300 class. These are not made by Hornby although they did at one time make the NB Bo-Bo diesel electric version later BR type 21 /29 which were associated with the Scottish Region. Steam held sway on the GW branch lines until about 1961, and was still dominant until the Beeching cuts closed most of the branch lines by 1965.

Early locomotives and short trains of four wheelers certainly fit in well with railway modelling, far better than hulking great Pacifics. You get 'more bang for your buck'. I well recall articles about models of early trains and locomotives by the late Mike Sharman which featured some of his models of the weird and wonderful creations from those early days. As a starter why not the Liverpool and Manchester 'Lion' which was the star of that delightful comedy "The Ti tfield Thunderbolt". The goods trucks of the period were quite a merry bunch too. The old Chaldron coal wagon with inside axles and dumb buffers which would be a good accompanyment to Locomotion No 1, is a 'must'!

I am a bit miffed that something I posted about an hour ago has been held for moderation because of profanity. I have looked very hard at it and I cannot see anything in it that would cause offence. EXPLAIN PLEASE!

There were extremely few diesels in service before 1958, and certainly none (apart from rail cars and diesel multiple units) in regular use on branch lines. By 1st November 1958 the following main line diesel locomotives were in service. D200 to D209, on expresses, D5300 to D5302, D5304 to D5308 on suburban passenger and freight, D5500 to D5519 on mixed traffic duties all on Eastern Region / Great Eastern main line D600, D601, D800, & 18000* on Great Western Main line expresses, none made by Hornby. (D800 was prototype for the cl;ass 42 later made in RailRoad range) D5000 and D5001, D5700 to D5704 on Midland main line, mainly on freight and suburban passenger D8000 to D8019, D8200 to DD8209, D8400 to D8409 in East London on cross London freight 10000-10001 and10201 to 10203 on West Coast main line expresses *18000 was a Gas Turbine The Great Western introduced a fleet of stremlined diesel railcars between 1935 and 1942, these were used on branch lines. Numbers of cars in service in July 1958 were W5W, W7W, W8W, W13W to W15W, W17W, W19W to W34W and W38W. There were five new AC cars 4 wheel railbuses on Western Region branch lines W79975 to W79979.There were also 20 single car Gloucester sets W55000 to W55019. None made by Hornby. There were no diesel locomotives on branch line passenger on the Western Region before 1959. The first classes to be used like that were the North British type 2 B-B D6300 to D6357 introduced 1959 and Beyer Peacock type 3 B-B D7000 to D7100 introduced 1961. Neither has been made by Hornby in recent years. The other DMUs in use on the WR in 1958 were three car suburban sets (London and Birmingham areas) , some three car cross country sets, and some Inter City units.

The first public electricity supply was in Godalming Surrey in 1881. Blackpool with an electric tram system started to supply the public in 1885. Magnus Volk demonstrated electric traction in 1883 on the sea front at Brighton and his railway is still there. The City and South London tube railway was electrified in 1890 and the North Eastern Railway electrified the suburban railways around Newcastloe upon Tyne from 1904. The city of Newcastle was quite advance in the adoption of electricity for traction and lighting with men like Armstrong, Merz and Parsons promoting and facilitating its development. The Newcastle and District Electric Co. were generating power using Parsons made steam turbines from 1890. As I said earlier the towns and cities who developed electric tramways also began supplying households and industries with electric power but with fragmented growth the voltages and frequencies varied considerably from place to place and it wasn't until the National Grid was completed in the 1940s were all places brought into a standard 240 volts 50 hz supply. If anyone is interested in how the railways contributed to the supply of electricity May I recommend - MERRY-GO-ROUND on the Rails (hmrs.org.uk)

Firstly in Edwardian times the number of lamps in streets, on stations and in railway yards would have been few and far between. There would have been exceptions of course in large cities but generally public lighting would be sparce. A typical lamp would be lit by gas, although oil lamps were still commonly used on station platforms, and electric light would be rare. The National Grid was started towards the end of the Edwardian period the enabling act was passed in 1926, with completion during World War 2. Before that only the larger towns had their own generating stations, especially those who had a tram system, but most still relied on gas for street lighting. Until the grid reached an area, especially. away from towns, gas or oil light was all that there was. Homes still relied on candles or oil lights. This website gives some basic information, with illustrations of typical lamps. Gas lighting in the streets, early-mid 20th century (1900s.org.uk) Gas lighting was still in use in the 1950s on some stations, /media/tinymce_upload/5e1d8395e9cabc29b5939aaaddbd21bf.jpg This is a typical Edwardian station with gas lighting, street lights would be similar. Now turning to goods yards and loco depots the style of lamp would be similar, but with fewer of them. A lamp might be provided where specific activities were carried out regularily such as at a weighbridge or a water crane. Elsewhere people depended on hand lamps usually oil lamps although acetylene lamps were becoming popular in industrial situations.

'Handed' carriages tended to be confined to the Great Western Railway who made up 'sets' where the corridor was on one side in direction of travel. Some non-corridor carriages were also 'handed' although the benefit of this is somewhat obscure. The other railway companies (London and North Eastern, London Midland and Scottish and Southern) did not normally bother to 'hand' their coaches and neither did BR. All carriages of one type always had the corridor on the same side.

I am pleased to hear you are up and running again. You might like to think about giving the loco a service, at the top of this forum is a FAQ - Beginner question - my loco/set is not working. Which contains some useful tips. Hornby Dublo trains do benefit from some gentle and sparing lubrication, when new the sets actually contained a small bottle of light machine oil. Most good model shops sell it and often in a handy hypodermic type dispenser to help you get it to where it is needed. Otherwise apply a single drop on the point of a pin.The general rule however is "If you can see the oil you have probably put too much on!" I find my Hornby Dublo locos do need it regularly. (NB modern Hornby does NOT need it so much.). Do not use heavy car oil, or WD40. Places to lubricate are - Axles where they go through the chassis (including bogie and pony trucks, tender wheel bearings and if using metal wheel stock rolling stock bearings as well) top and bottom motor bearing (be very careful NOT to get oil on the carbon brushes, commutator or windings) teeth of worm and pinion (some people use a lithium grease here) slide bars and piston rods valve gear and coupling rod pivots As well as lubrication check the surface of the commutator to ensure it is clean, and that the carbon brushes are in good condition. Check all screws holding wires are tight and all soldered joints are good. If you need spare parts the Dublo Surgeon who can be found by Google is a good place to start. Enjoy your Hornby Dublo, the Rolls Royce of model railways.

Undoubtedly the appropriate ready to run locomotives for a layout in Norfolk and Suffolk include the Hornby B1, B17 and B12 4-6-0s on the expresses, the J15 0-6-0 on local goods and D16 4-4-0 on local passenger. Also suitable will be the K1 2-6-0 on mixed traffic duties. Rapido Trains in conjunction with Model Rail magazine produced the J70 tram engine which is also suitable especially for working on to the docks. Suitable Bachmann models include the J39 0-6-0 for goods, K3 2-6-0, Ivatt 4MT 2-6-0 on mixed traffic, and V2 2-6-2 on express goods and passenger. At a push the Oxford Rail N7 0-6-2T which was really a suburban loco working out of London Liverpool Street and the Hornby L1 2-6-4T which was similarly used might turn up on weekend excursions. Seaside stations often brought 'foreign' locomotives in with excursions so an LMS Black 5, Jubilee or Royal Scot could be a possibility, and if you are modelling the later days of BR then don't forget the Standard classes, Plenty to choose from. Classes NOT modelled ready to run which could be seen in this area include J17 and J20 0-6-0, F4, F5 and F6 class 2-4-2T J67, J68 and J69 0-6-0T.

After a long time in storage both the locomotive and the controller may have suffered deterioration. We usually recommend that the controller is checked out by a competent electrician before use. The locomotive is fairly robust but can suffer from the effects of temperature, moisture and dust and would benefit from a clean, service and lubrication. Insulation on wires inside the loco and internally in the controller may have broken down. Firstly eliminate whether the locomotive is at fault or the controller. Using a PP3 9volt battery touch the pick up skate and a driving wheel of the locomotive simultaneously with the terminals and see if the motor reacts. That should demonstrate that the loco is basically OK. The A3 controller may not still be suitable or safe to use if insulation has started to break down. It is unlikely that you will be able to fix it yourself, and may need to find an electrician that can do it for you. Better really is to invest in a modern unit. and for Hornby Dublo you need one with a good turn of power. The Hornby HM2000 or one of the Gaugemaster units would be suitable. Avoid the cheap train set controllers as they are designed to operate the modern high efficiency motors and struggle with 50+ year old mechanisms. The Hornby Railways Collectors Association caters for people who wish to run the old Hornby Dublo train sets. Check out their website ( hrca.net )

Generally speaking railways in Commonwealth counties adopted British practice for signalling and safety. Programmes on TV about the railways of India showed methods of working familiar to us in the UK. A single line presents a special problem for maintaining safety, because as well as the risk of one train running to the back of the one ahead, there is the much more destructive danger of a head on collision. In the early days this was prevented by making sure that only one train could be on the single line at any one time . This was enforced by only using one locomotive to work all the trains, a system known as "one engine in steam". Another method was to appoint a person who had to accompany every train. He was known as a "Pilotman". These systems tended to be inflexible so that trains had to alternate in each direction, and if there was two or more trais to go in the same direction some method had to be found to get the engine or pilotman back each time to take the next one through. To add a further level of security a token had to be provided to stay with the pilotman or locomotive as the authority to run over the single line. This might be a wooden 'Staff' or a brass ticket with the name of the section of single line engraved on it and it was incumbent on the driver to see this token before departing. To allow more than one train to follow another a system of paper tickets was added. The pilotman could issue a written ticket to the driver and provided he also showed him the staff, the first train could go and as soon as it reached the other end, the next train with the token / pilotman on board could go through. These systems lasted from the earliest days right up to present, but as electric telegraph became more important, a further level of security was added. Most single lines were provided at eitrher end with machines connected electrically which would only release one token at any time, The signalman obtains a token and gives it to the driver as authority to proceed. It was impossible to extract another token until the first one was returned into the machine. Signals were usually provided to protect the points leading to the passing loops and a signal protecting the single line interlinked with the token machine which can only be cleared after a token has been released at that end. The signal protecting the single line could be the same one leading out of the loop, but often was another one just ahead of the points . Level crossings on the single line might be protected with signals, or might not.

Light isn't the only thing that will discolour plastic, but is probably the chief culprit. It is the ultra-violet wavelengths which affect pigment. Exposure to certain chemicals including some cleaning products and oil based products too may affect it. I doubt however that light emitting diodes will cause much problem.

I already have SE&CR liveried 4 & 6w carriages on pre-order, and have done so for nearly a year I am a little curious that Hornby have come out with these a year after the Genisis range was advertised. I wait with interest to see how the Merseyside offerings compare to the Margate ones!