ColinB

I think I had this issue with one of the early Hornby decoders, someone on this site identified that there were issues with these early decoders. I think in the end I binned it, converted it to six pin and used a Zimo decoder.

If you are going to convert it use a 6 pin socket not a 4. This allows you to use decoders from different suppliers and is small enough to fit properly. I do it with all my small locos.

Yes LMSFan72, it uses specific pins on the ESU decoder the same pins that any other decoder has. It is just whether those pins have the right signal on them. The Hornby one doesn't, if you order the D option (I think I got that right) of a Zimo decoder then than will be connected properly as will the Dapol Imperium with the right version. So it depends which version of decoder you buy. Now from what I can gather the HM7000 in all its guises doesn't enable those extra 2 functions and from what I am reading has no configuration to make it work. So my suggestion is if you want all the lights to work is move the HM7000 to another loco and buy either a Zimo or ECU sound decoder, remembering to specify that you need all 6 functions enabled (2 for standard lights, plus 4 extra). I did think you could use one of those devices on EBay to drive the two extra functions but that would mean breaking into the connection on the PCB which is not a good idea. Hornby are a bit behind the rest on lighting generally only using 4 functions at the most, so they obviously haven't found a need to configure the other 2 correctly.

This is the Railroad set from the part number. I have just done this to my model I bought a headlight board off EBay, it is a really nice PCB that you connect 3 wires to. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251999154032?var=555850753629 You will need a soldering iron. I black tacked the circuit board in the front under the seat unit. You will need two of these one for the power car and one for the dummy. It comes with full fitting instructions.

Perhaps next time order the loco with the factory fitted sound option. By my calculation the difference is about £89, an HM7000 with Powerbank is £86, so for £3.00 more it saves all the aggro and the sound is tailored for the actual loco and all the lights work. I do the same calculation for all the locos I buy. Hornby are the only ones I buy without, mainly because they they don't do the option. I just got fed up with the issues taking the loco apart to fit DCC sound and found generally the factory fitted option was cheaper than buying a sound decoder plus postage.

Generally Railroad locos have the DCC socket in the loco, it saves them the cost of the 4 way connector to the tender. The thing that gets me though is saving a DCC socket (if they do) is not going to put much of a dent in that big debt they have accumulated, they don't make enough all is does is wind up the Customer. Now in the field I come from yes it might.

Daedalus I know that, the polarity and voltages are all wrong anyway. It depends on the micro they use but most outputs are open collector so in my crude circuit you connect the output port in the micro to the base of a PNP transistor via a resistor that does the actual charging. I did draw the circuit out just to figure out whether it would work. I am sure there are other ways to do it. That is why I said you could make your own was using a function output (in microprocessor terms an output port), so say the second function with the flying lead on an 8 pin device. Either way I was just interested because I see the advantages of decent "stay alive" in my Accurascale class 37 but a lot of the systems I have used previously have given issues when reprogramming.

Don't dumb down Coca Cola I bought a really nice tram off them about a year ago and it was in their sale.

The reason I asked was because when ever I add "stay alive" I cannot read back CV values. Now I know you don't have issues but I do. So I was looking at HM7000 for that reason. The Powerbank last time I looked was about £16.00 and it is huge, the last pack of tantalums I bought was just under £2.00 and I fitted them to a strip of veroboard. I used tantalums as the space in a P2 loco is so limited a standard electrolytic won't fit. I don't intend attacking my new loco with a Dremel as some do. Anyway because of my previous profession, capacitors are not something I am short of. You guys have told me the information that I wanted, which I am grateful for.

I know Fishmanoz, but the wonderful document actually says that. They obviously didn't get round to changing it. From what I can see Rallymatt it is just a bank of capacitors, there may well be a series resistor but with only a two wire input it can't be too complicated. I assume this must the technique Zimo use as I have never had an issue reading CVs with their "stay alive". You probably could make you own by using one of the function outputs of the decoder, the only issue being that you would have to manually turn it on with a function command.

Well I read the entry, surprisingly very little but you have told me enough. It does mean I can make my own out of a load of tantalum capacitors. I don't why they limit it to only when the loco is running, if they wanted to stop it charging during during a programming session just use a timer.

Great thanks for the info, I will read the manual, I had a long think and worked out how they do it. So it means you don't have all those programming issues you get with a normal circuit. The reason I ask is on my older ringfield based locos I want to add lots of "stay alive" having seen what can be achieved by Accurascale, which will compensate for the lack of pickups and mean they run smoother.

You can buy a driver pcb for the extra two functions off BLW technical services on EBAY, there probably is enough room to fit it.

Having tried to fit an old TTS decoder into a new P2, Hornby are probably fitting 21 pin sockets as their 8 pin HW7000 will probably not fit. As someone said it is probably a standard fit. One one loco they did put 21 pin DCC ready on the box but fitted 8 pin sockets.

Now I read a lot from all the posts about the way Hornby has implemented "stay alive" on this decoder. From what I can gather reading a ton of posts, Hornby are driving the charging circuit via a port on the microprocessor as opposed to the normal method. So for all you techs out there, is it true?

Yes I did. I saw the video from Charlie at Chadwick Model railways on YouTube, bought the kit off hornswhistlesworkshop and fitted it in my old Hornby class 25. Really easy installation and the loco ran much smoother than when it was fitted with the 3 pole ringfield. The only downside is because you are still using the old ringfield wheels and gears you can only pick up power from the side of the bogie that doesn't have traction types. It definitely was an improvement. The kit is a bit more expensive than others but it seems that the guy knows what he is doing and tailors the motor to specific models (he has different versions dependant on loco top speed).

As someone said before it is because the HM7000 has not enabled all the function outputs. When I order a Zimo decoder for a Dapol diesel loco it has to be the D variant as opposed to the C one as on a C version 2 of the function outputs are not enabled. Now I think on a Zimo there is a CV that you can write to to enable them. I must admit I took the easy option, I bought the loco with sound fitted. If you want decent sound specially tailored to that particular loco it is the easiest and surprisingly the cheapest option. I don't know if Hornby have this magic CV to enable them and more importantly the hardware to drive them.

My local model shop is in an Industrial estate, the guy that runs it used to have a High Street shop. He says rates are far less and two units up is a security firm so he has no issues with people breaking in. Trouble is he generally charges recommended retail and then complains nobody buys locos off him, although funnily he is quite competitive for rolling stock.

All the latest sound locos are good value for money, on most you are getting sound for £30 to £40 extra. It is not Hornby's fault people want to make a profit out of their product. The TTS class 66 sound wasn't that bad virtually all my Bachmann class 66s have it, so the HM7000 must be better.

Brilliant, thanks.

Does the rebuilt Hush Hush loco sound like a P2? I have a TTS decoder for a P2 and as it won't fit the new P2, even with the 21 pin conversion (just not enough room), so I would like to fit it into my rebuilt Hush Hush.

Yes I am sure sometimes they do lose the odd one. You could think it is a conspiracy but generally it is just something in the system not censorship. Sometimes it takes so long to load you do wonder if it accepted it, quite often it takes so long that the contributor hits the save button multiple times that multiple posts appear, so it would not be surprising if it completely misses it.

I suspect the coupling supplied is part of a standard pack. If you really want a front coupling buy the Princess Royal front bogie one which has one. This is not the only model Hornby make without a front coupling, so it is not so unusual.

Perhaps when the tier system came out Rails found themselves in the same situation as Hattons, being bottom of the list for new models. They probably realised that is where most of the money is, so with no new models they weren't going to be making much on Hornby sales, so they did the logical thing and decided not to deal with Hornby. There is also the point that Rails trades on its reputation, it has done for years, so letting down customers because they don't get an allocation is also not good for business. All the time they have been a good Retailer for Bachmann and all the other makes especially Accurascale. Then there are their specials which also seem to sell at a premium. So overall losing Hornby probably did cause them some issues but not that much.

Which model is it, tender driven or loco driven with the old Triang motor. If it is tender driven I will look through my old bits to see if I have a chassis. I can't remember whether I sold them when I converted my Duchess to the later loco driven chassis.