Jonathan Mock Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Jon -- are you suggesting that Airfix has only its home market to go at and is somehow not competitive in the other European markets that Revell sells in? No. I'm saying all kit companies have markets where they are stronger than others because of the different wholesale and retail outlets that they can sell into. If the trade says to company X "give us more cars" and then to company Y "give us more aeroplanes", then there's your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Mock Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 If Ebbro (a Japanese company) can make a highly detailed 1/24 state of the art kit of a Citroen DS19 (A French car) and make money, surely Airfix could make a profitable...?Japan as a domestic model consumer market is huge, Hasegawa and Tamiya make the bulk of their sales from Japan alone, and even that is a drop in the ocean compared to Bandai - the biggest kit company in the world. Japanese supermarkets have model aisles that knock most western model shops into the shade.Japanese kit companies can produce kits knowing that they'll have a ready home market. It's a different culture that doesn't stand comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Hyett Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 perhaps airfix just cant do cars the only one they have released in 2016 is a db5 which i think we already have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Writer Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Some very good debate here. In the past, Airfix (in whichever guise it was constituted at the time) did deals with other kit makers to dip a toe in the car kit market, mostly 1:24 scale. For example, there were some good MPC kits from the USA on a variety of subjects, and there was a lovely 1:24 scale Aston Martin DB6 which I remember building (it was a world away from the sad 1:32 DB5) and a 1930's Lincoln (if I remember correctly!). Later they did deals with other kit makers (Aoshima - MGB; Heller - when part of the same family; Gunze Sangyo - super detailed kits). It seems to me that if they entered into similar arrangements again then it could be a way to leverage sales so long as they also tooled some of their own which, if good enough, could perhaps be licensed to some other kit makers. Of course Airfix is rightly known and loved for aircraft kits, but the company is much more than that. And with its Hornby ownership of Corgi and Scalextric, it is not as though cars are an unknown quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braille Dave Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 As a 'usual suspect', and one with some awareness of the commercial world- the reason any company offers their goods with a massive discount is because they don't sell- you get to a point where it's better to take a loss on the product, rather than the costs (tax- stock in hand is taxed as an asset, storage costs, insurance, etc) continuing to rack up. There is a risk to every product you bring to market, but you always have to measure that against the cost of research, development, marketing and production. It's fairly obvious that the costs of developing a new range of car kits, is currently outweighing the possible profit. That may change in the future. It may not. I would rather Airfix survived and thrived, even if they don't stock all the stuff I want. As I said upthread, Airfix have an ordering history from their stockists- If the stockists don't order cars from Airfix, they won't make them. And as for Hobbycraft stocking lots of cars- I was chatting with the manager of my local store for another reason, and he was trying desperately to send back the Tamiya car kits- as they 'never sold' -he wanted the shelf space for dinosaur kits! So sorry guys, cars seem to be too small a market for Airfix to enter into, just yet. Who knows about the future though.... ....I want a 1:24 LandRover Defender to go with a potential diorama... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratch Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Airfix (in whichever guise it was constituted at the time), did deals with other kit makers to dip a toe in the car kit market, mostly 1:24 scale.If this had ben a profitable venture, surely it would have continued, or been repeated with other manufacturers. The fact it isn't currently being done speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Writer Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Airfix (in whichever guise it was constituted at the time), did deals with other kit makers to dip a toe in the car kit market, mostly 1:24 scale.If this had ben a profitable venture, surely it would have continued, or been repeated with other manufacturers. The fact it isn't currently being done speaks volumes.When you say with such certainty that it "speaks volumes" I doubt you have any more certainty on the matter than I do. It could have been because the corporate entities and relationships were entirely different in the "good old days" to how they are now... To do a deal with a potential rival requires a basic willingness on both parties to co-operate in the first place; it needs some form of relationship and a dialogue which clearly happened once. Whether or not the Hornby mind set is open to deals which involve sharing IP is something beyond my ken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratch Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I worked in the industry and have insight that enthusiasts do not. The industry is traditionally very secretive, and I could not possibly spill the beans here. Why do you think they bring out endless variants of Spitfires, but no cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Writer Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Aha! The old "I signed the Official Secrets Act and there's lots I can't tell you" line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratch Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Enthusiasts all want their particular favourite subject kitted regardless of whether it makes good business sense. That's not to say it shouldn't be investigated, but after sensible, businesslike review, may not be deemed feasible and banging on about it will not change the business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braille Dave Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Aha! The old "I signed the Official Secrets Act and there's lots I can't tell you" line.If you work for any company, there is always commercially sensitive information that you are obligated not to divulge... Equally, Ratch, as Owner of ATF may well have been passed information In the course of his activity, that Airfix have asked him to keep in confidence... ...That's life, and no amount of mickey-taking is going to change that... ....By the way, it certainly 'speaks volumes' to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Writer Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 It nevertheless seems a shame if Airfix should be one of the few great kit makers to seriously neglect a sector where their competitors are happy to participate and indeed invest in new tooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richyt Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Some very good debate here. In the past, Airfix (in whichever guise it was constituted at the time) did deals with other kit makers to dip a toe in the car kit market, mostly 1:24 scale. For example, there were some good MPC kits from the USA on a variety of subjects, and there was a lovely 1:24 scale Aston Martin DB6 which I remember building (it was a world away from the sad 1:32 DB5) and a 1930's Lincoln (if I remember correctly!). Later they did deals with other kit makers (Aoshima - MGB; Heller - when part of the same family; Gunze Sangyo - super detailed kits). It seems to me that if they entered into similar arrangements again then it could be a way to leverage sales so long as they also tooled some of their own which, if good enough, could perhaps be licensed to some other kit makers. Of course Airfix is rightly known and loved for aircraft kits, but the company is much more than that. And with its Hornby ownership of Corgi and Scalextric, it is not as though cars are an unknown quantity. I too remember the 1/24 Aston Martin DB6 that MG Writer mentions, which I think was out in the late sixties. This might have been a re-tool of the James Bond DB5, but I think I read somewhere that this tooling had been lost? There was also the Toyota 2000GT at around the same time. The Lincoln was I think an MPC kit and part of that tie-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richyt Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Perhaps one other issue might be royalties and/or licensing. Presumably whoever decides to produce a car kit has to pay the manufacturer of the full size vehicle some form of fee? It would seem Ferrari certainly makes the likes of Revell etc pay something, hence the licensing sticker on every box, and this is not uncommon for other manufacturers. I read somewhere that Ford allegedly requires a large fee for any models produced, so presumably this would impact on any decisions Airfix might make. There was some talk a few years ago that Tamiya were thinking of producing a Mk 1 Lotus-Cortina, but it never happened, probably because it might not sell well in big markets like the USA. It hasn't stopped others though, as Bel-Kits are about to release two rally versions of the Mk 1 Ford Escort in 1/24 scale. I think the likelihood of kits of '60's BMC cars, such as MG 1100, Morris Minor, Triumph Herald etc, being produced is very small. These trademarks are owned by SAIC China and BMW now, so presumably they would have to agree to any kits being produced. I think we may have to accept that Airfix is going to concentrate on aircraft and is not going to produce any cars in 1/24 in the immediate future. Any car modellers will have to look to other brands, as I do. The last Airfix cars I bought were the reboxed Heller rally cars of around 2004-05. There hasn't been much in Airfix's range to interest me since, which is a shame, but I'm only one possible sale, and I suppose there are at least a hundred aircrft sales instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Writer Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 I just read the latest "work bench" update and it was quite instructive. There was lots of breathless excitement and enthusiasm about a Handley-Page Victor bomber aircraft in 1:72 scale (not without justification if aircraft float your boat, to badly mix metaphors). Then there was the re-issue of a Canberra in 1:48 scale. Okay again. So I looked to see if there were any cars, and I found one - a re-issue of what was described as a 1:35 scale MINI Cooper starter set. Which comes with little pots of paint and retails for £17.99. So, not only is it a rather pricy kit for around the price of many fully finished diecast collector models, but the copyrighter couldn't even get the scale right (it's 1:32, okay? D'err!). That tells me that there is little real interest in or enthusiasm for car kits inside AirfiX in 2016. I'd love to be proved wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Writer Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 The latest issue of the "Airfix World" monthly glossy magazine (which I guess is fairly independent of Hornby) includes a nice build of a 1:24 scale classic VW Golf. Shame it's a Rev*ll kit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the F-111C dude Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 what if airfix released a model car from every countries main car producer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Writer Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 what if airfix released a model car from every countries main car producerSuggestions, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Writer Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Perhaps one other issue might be royalties and/or licensing. Presumably whoever decides to produce a car kit has to pay the manufacturer of the full size vehicle some form of fee? It would seem Ferrari certainly makes the likes of Revell etc pay something, hence the licensing sticker on every box, and this is not uncommon for other manufacturers. I read somewhere that Ford allegedly requires a large fee for any models produced, so presumably this would impact on any decisions Airfix might make. There was some talk a few years ago that Tamiya were thinking of producing a Mk 1 Lotus-Cortina, but it never happened, probably because it might not sell well in big markets like the USA. It hasn't stopped others though, as Bel-Kits are about to release two rally versions of the Mk 1 Ford Escort in 1/24 scale. I think the likelihood of kits of '60's BMC cars, such as MG 1100, Morris Minor, Triumph Herald etc, being produced is very small. These trademarks are owned by SAIC China and BMW now, so presumably they would have to agree to any kits being produced. I think we may have to accept that Airfix is going to concentrate on aircraft and is not going to produce any cars in 1/24 in the immediate future. Any car modellers will have to look to other brands, as I do. The last Airfix cars I bought were the reboxed Heller rally cars of around 2004-05. There hasn't been much in Airfix's range to interest me since, which is a shame, but I'm only one possible sale, and I suppose there are at least a hundred aircrft sales instead!Many excellent points, well argued. As Airfix presumably continue to avoid entering the 1:24 scale car kit market, many other highly regarded kit companies continue to survive and, for all I know, thrive in this sector. I correspond with some of them, and whilst they no more share their intimate secrets with me than I am sure I could expect from Airfix, they are surprisingly open, candid and enthusiastic. I have no doubt that there are talented and genuine enthusiasts within our favourite British kit brand: it is just that sadly, on the basis of recent evidence, none of them seem to have any interest in the car world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Triggers Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 I think airfix should go down the heller route and for heavans sake they were once partners! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy_fitzsimmonds Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 ...Are you suggesting Airfix should go broke?I gather that's what has happened to Heller... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braille Dave Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Ahh, there you have it...Heller was too small to do the whole 'All things to all men' thing, and seems like it's about to pay for that. I suspect that Airfix is in the same situation... Without the market share of Tamiya, or Revell or indeed the base market size of those two (Japan and the US, respectively), Airfix has to concentrate on their core market- It would be nice to think that their long term plans include cars, but who knows? There may be a host of problems to face, from design experience (based on what I've seen from a build point of view, what car modellers demand from a kit is very different to what an aircraft modeller would like see) to licensing- I've noticed that car manufacturers are very hot on controlling their brand rights (even to the fact that Airfix had to get a licensing agreement from GM to do their recent 1/72 US Bomber support set- a kit that includes a 'chevy' from 70-ish years ago). Even market penetration! Shame really- I do think Airfix might have some mileage in releasing those classic british cars they used to do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth ONeill Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 ISTR that the Japanese market is larger than the rest of the global kit market put together!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebeep Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 ISTR that the Japanese market is larger than the rest of the global kit market put together!!It's on a scale that we can't begin to comprehend over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Mock Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 I think airfix should go down the heller route and for heavans sake they were once partners! Just because they won't do cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.