Elite burn out

[Howbi]

My original Elite, dated 28th Feb 2008 has been getting hot recently on rt hand side.........then t'other day a smell of component burning emanated.........decided to have a look inside and this is it.........

/media/tinymce_upload/e1db90ff58d03f40f34a8c8ea511fd21.JPG

is this repairable or terminal?.......... 😢.............HB

[Fishmanoz]

Is it just those 2 semiconductors burnt out HB (the bad one and the one next to it)?  Is the PCB ok around the bad one?  If just the 2, should be replaceable.  Would also seem they may be marginal on spec for the power they have to handle.  Or maybe just old age failure.  Or even poor contact with the heat sinks under them over time, something to be addressed on replacement.

[Rog RJ]

Probably repairable.  If you can read the part numbers on the affected parts it should be possible to replace them yourself if you know what you are doing but there may be other parts that have failed which aren't obvious to the naked eye and it could be those parts which caused the failure.  Personally, I'd contact Hornby to get it repaired.  They may cover it under warranty if it's due to a manufacturing fault.

[96RAF]

Possibly due to dried out heat transfer paste twixt component and heat sink

Q2 is IRFR024N and Q4 is IRFR9024N although these may be obsolete by now but a web search should bring up the later items if applicable.

Notice Q4 has a lot of solder flooded on its legs.

PCB looks to be damaged but may be recoverable.

To get at the back of the board pull off the knobs, then remove the nut and washer securing the speed encoders.

Next release the white ribbon cable - clamp flips free and cable slips out, then release the plastic clips at mid board each side and it lifts away, although as you have already got the heat sinks off you have obviously got there already.

Rob

[Yelrow]

9 years old, RAF, how old is your latest failiure. Twould be interesting to see the life expectancy. john

[96RAF]

You get the feeling John that we may be reaching natural end of life for the original Elites Circa 2006-8.

Mine are all in the 2007-2010 bracket, but tend to be well abused as the nature of my testing schedule is looking for trouble and actually trying to break them.

Rob

[Howbi]

Many thanks to you all for your replies and advice.........I have ordered a couple of replacement Mosfets from RS-online, only £2.40 with free postage.......further research was interesting..........the programming side of the circuit works perfectly as does the 15v DC aux output so all is not lost if the track output side fails to repair, it can be used as a dedicated programmer and accessory output.........HB

[96RAF]

I can confirm that HBM

Its the Track feed circuit only and not involved with either boost, prog or aux circuits.

Rob

[56006]

Hi all.

I've just registered on the forum so hello to you all.

I saw this topic and specifically the reply from RAF96 where you quote component reference numbers for the damaged components in the photo of the Elite PCB.

I have an elite with component L4 blown and I've struggled to try and find anything similar on the web.

I'm pretty sure its an inductor and acts as a choke or supressor on the input side but when I read your post I thought it sounded like you had a circuit drawing and might be able to tell me the part reference?

I 've already swapped the similar inductor from position L3 to where L4 was and it restored the LCD display , but inevitably resulted in the supply to the tracks being unavailable.

The good component is plain black and unmarked. Its about 5mm x 5mm x 3mm and has 4 pins.

I'd be grateful for any help as I've found the elite to be very good and I'm keen to get it restored to working order again

Cheers

Keith

 

[96RAF]

Hi Keith

There are only two types of common mode choke on the Elite board.

 

L3 (Aux output) & L7 (Prog/Boost output) are both 40R CM3322P400R 4-pin L4 (Track output) & L6 (DC power input) are both 300R CM3032V301R-10 8-pin These parts are readily available from the likes of Farnell or RS.  I am surprised you managed to rig the 8-pin into the 4-pin slot.The other odd thing is the LCD display is fed purely from the main PIC chip.  I am still struggling to successfully replace the pair of tiny dual mosfets adjacent to the big cap on the board right hand side that provide Programming output. At one point I got to where one channel of the H-bridge worked but the component Howbiman blew earlier in this thread is getting very hot, so it has gone on the back burner for now. Good luck with the repairs.Rob

[56006]

Hi Keith

There are only two types of common mode choke on the Elite board.

 

L3 (Aux output) & L7 (Prog/Boost output) are both 40R CM3322P400R 4-pin   L4 (Track output) & L6 (DC power input) are both 300R CM3032V301R-10 8-pin   These parts are readily available from the likes of Farnell or RS.     I am surprised you managed to rig the 8-pin into the 4-pin slot. The other odd thing is the LCD display is fed purely from the main PIC chip.     I am still struggling to successfully replace the pair of tiny dual mosfets adjacent to the big cap on the board right hand side that provide Programming output. At one point I got to where one channel of the H-bridge worked but the component Howbiman blew earlier in this thread is getting very hot, so it has gone on the back burner for now.   Good luck with the repairs. Rob

Hi Rob.

Thanks for that info  - much appreciated.

I think I confused things by trying to remember the L numbers.  It would be the two 4 pins I swapped.

I'll get on to RS components  and let you know how I get on.

Cheers

Keith

 

[56006]

Hi Rob,

Parts arrived from RS today and I'm over the moon as , despite my inelegant soldering with long wires, the Elite is now working again.

I tested the track output and the prog output and it all works as it should.

Thanks again for the help and the only thing I don't know is what caused the original failure but I guess I'm just grateful its working again.

Keith

[96RAF]

Keith

Good to hear all is well again.

Rob

[Chrissaf]

#56006,

A question, just out of curiosity.

.

When I searched RS Components for CM3322P400R I came up blank. Did you end up using the spec of the CM3322P400R to source a near RS equivalent?

.

I would be keen to know what RS catalogue part numbers you actually ordered.....

[pidder]

Followed this with much interest. Most of you will know I have a 10 year old u/s Elite which Hornby say is not economically repairable. Wonder if any of you would like to have a look at it to see if a repair is feasible? At my expense, of course...

[96RAF]

Pidder - I doubt I,would be much help as I am still struggling to mend mine. I can get one half of the programming H-bridge working but not both sides. The tiny parts are fairly easy to solder using a hot air gun, but lack of decent magnifier to work with is hampering progress.

 

If yours as we suspect is a bad PIC chip then even if it could be sourced and replaced the likes of us wouldn't have the PIC code or even the kit to reload it.

 

What it needs is a firm diagnosis to determine where the actual problem is and that is outwith my capability, unless it is an obvious burnt out part.

Rob

[pidder]

Hi Rob  Thanks, I have had a look inside, no signs of any burning, this does seem to indicate a serious component failure. Think I must accept that it is not remedial and dispose of it appropriately. Thanks for all you interest.

Peter

[56006]

Hi Chrissaf.

Yep I typed the part code Rob gave without a direct match. However that code led to some useful descriptions and voltages/ current ratings. To be fair not knowing what the component was called was the main obstacle to me cracking it myself.

The part was RS-104-8557 - common mode choke coil 500R 4A 50Vdc ( manuf part no DLW5BTM501SQ21)

piddler- if your unit was exhibiting the same component failure I'd have been happy to have a go at fixing it for you. However don't junk the old elite. It looks like various components might give up at some point in the future and having a spare unit might be z good strategic plan and we might need to canibalise any written off Elites to keep others going.

By the way my unit was marked 11/07 on the rear.

As with 56006 & 56301 I've found out that you don't need to have one of every spare part yourself - you just need to know someone who has the spare part!

Cheers

Keith

[Chrissaf]

#56006 (Keith)

Cheers for that, useful info to file away.

Chris

[pidder]

Keith Noted, I'll put it away, you never know...just mention, it worked o.k. before I tried an upgrade...

Peter

[56006]

Nice one.

And sorry I got your username wrong in my earlier post.

Keith

[rocky361871]

Hello,

This is my first post on the forum, have been reading with interest for years.

My problem is with my Elite code 17/08, will not boot up properly display shows jibberish. Sent it back to Hornby who looked at it and sent it back to me saying "beyond economic repair ". I then phoned them and asked what exactly was the fault, was told it was the display buffer?? Any ideas? Managed to do a firmware update, also connects to Railmaster no problem. Surely if the motherboard has so   many different problems Hornby should do them as a spare part,they can't cost that much!

Steve 

[96RAF]

Welcome Rocky

 As you have since carried out a firmware upgrade my first suggestion of carrying out a Unit Reset will in effect already have been done, but it is worth a try anyhow.

 

The Elite display screen is 'connected' to its daughter pcb by way of a zebra connectors which can if disturbed give errors on the display, malformed or missing characters or similar. You can dismantle the unit to get at these strips to clean them and the mating areas but it is fiddly and you should try the procedure below first.

 

To check if all the characters on screen are working power up the Elite whilst pressing the LOCO button. Release it when Hornby appears on screen. The screen will fill with every available character.

 

You will then see a statement EEPROM OK or Error.

 

You can then press each and every button to see if it responds with a numerical code on screen and if those characters are well formed or not. This will prove if the screen and its zebra connections are good and suggest that it would not be of value to dismantle it for cleaning.

 

Once you have finished just power the Elite down and then start it normally.

 

Your suggestion to stock motherboards is a good idea and one well worth putting in the Wishlist Forum area.

Rob 

[rocky361871]

Hello Rob

Sorry about the wait but working long hours,firstly tried your hold the loco button to no avail, so took my courage in both hands and went in ,devil of a job with those triangular screws,finally got it apart looked around but could not see any zebra connectors,anyway I thought I would boot it up and guess what, it's working! Tried it a dozen times every time a winner. Have not put it back together yet going to wait a couple of days because of those pesky screws. So much for "display buffer".Thank you Rob for your knowledge and time, any more problems and I will be seeking you out.

Steve

[96RAF]

Glad to hear it is working again Rocky.

 

It sounds like the act of taking it apart has un-disturbed something, maybe a stuck button or the ribbon cable has moved - if so just check it appears to be right in the clamp and ensure the beige part of the clamp is snugged into place in the white socket part.

 

To see the zebra connectors you have to remove the daughter board for the screen (4 cross point screws) and twist the 6 tags holding the frame to the board so they align with the slots, then you can carefully prise the LCD screen away fro the board. The connectors by dint of their design are not critical of alignment on reassembly, but if the display is OK now I would not be distrubing it.

 

I have replaced some of my screws with those from my 'gash' box gleaned from various broken 'boxes' and toys over the years. Just match length and diameter. As they are soft headed I have also converted some to slotted heads using a junior hacksaw but this is fiddly and just as a stop gap. Tip - don't tighten them so much on assembly.

 

In answer to Olly I have started on the Teardown articles he requested, which will detail dismantling, list the faulty components known to date, with part numbers and equivalents where possible. Then I will cover basic testing and firmware updating.

 

I do articles for Elite first then Select, eLInk and R8216/R8247 acc decoders.

 

I would do R8239 Booster and R8238 RLM but I don't have these. If anyone who has these modules would like to pop the top and take a few detailed photos of the insides I can work an article from there.

Thanks

Rob