gowest Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/7d8fb329222a11c11f18e9cb9551c42e.jpgMost of the engines that I have built over the last few years have been tender engines of one type or another and the tank engine which would be a nice branch line or freight engine is missing from my layout so I would like to see if the Hornby live steam chassis might be shoehorned into a smaller body. I think an attempt on a tank engine was produced but the engine had a wagon attached so that this would act as the tender but by carrying out this type of configuration detracts from a stand alone tank engine which is what I would like to accomplish. I have a few ideas for this new build and will lay them out here as the work moves along. Anyone wishing to add a comment or ideas would be warmly welcomed as I think this engine will be a real challenge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 51XX would be a nice choice but more for suburban passenger trains, not branch or freight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Looking forward to more excellent bedtime reading gowest. And I think we should rebrand the GWR the Go West Railroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 It certainly will be a challenge. Finding a place for the boiler being the hardest part.Is there a prototype with a largish bunker that could provide the space? Maunsell W class or Thomson L1 perhaps?Looking forward to watching how things progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Looking forward to more excellent bedtime reading gowest. And I think we should rebrand the GWR the Go West Railroad. Very appropriate given where Ken lives. This project will be a goodie. I have an idea for the boiler but need to sketch it out overlaid onto the chassis components. Remember that one you made with the notch at one end, this one could be of similar shape and load bearing to carry the rear wheels, possibly even have an integral chassis frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Live steam Pug next?? 😛 (retires to nuclear fallout shelter!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 Fishmanoz hope your tucked up in bed here’s a bit more.Muzza I did a w class some years back and that was a bit tight getting all the parts inside the body which was a little larger i think.RAF 96 like the idea of a L shape boiler think that would work and have the water filler screw under the siding vents in the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 GWR tank engine a challenge maybe to build as what we need to do is compress all the Hornby parts into a smaller body./media/tinymce_upload/9252785af7a012ecaa1cc5483e64a6c4.jpgTo achieve this new engine in live steam will not be easy as a few problems spring to mind but I have been giving it some thought and think it might just work?As all the Hornby live steam parts need to be fitted on the chassis and this will include the water tank in the tender of the A3, A4 engines a new layout of parts must be under taken so that a more compacted engine can evolve.Starting with the chassis my first idea is to remove all the axle bearing positions as no doubt the 2-6-2 wheel arrangement will be totally different spacing the only axle position that I will use is the centre one as the valve timing comes from here.Then like a blank page the work can start, building the engine up from the wheels the brass kit that I have comes with its own chassis and this I want to use as part of this new chassis so to do this a small change to the Hornby chassis to allow the fitting of the kit frames.Because the Hornby chassis carries all the major components and the fixing holes are all drilled in place it seems only natural to use this chassis why reinvent the wheel.The first job therefore will be to machine off about 15 thou from the sides of the Hornby chassis this way the kit frames can be modified and screwed in place each side of the Hornby chassis using it like a frame stretcher and will bringing the dimensions back to what they would have been before the machining operation took place, I hope you are all following this but a few drawings might make things a little clearer.In the drawings below you will see the 3 stages of change.Chassis 1 is looking end on and with out any changes to the original Hornby design.Chassis 2 is of the same view but after the milling operation leaving a step in each side of the Hornby frames.Chassis 3 is again the same view but now with the brass frames of the kit in place and fixed by screws so we have a chassis of the correct length for the tank engine body and all the Hornby parts will need to be fitted within this chassis length to make a nice compact working steam engine.All that needs to be done next is to locate the new main driver axle positions and make up the bearings for the axles so that the wheels can be fitted in place this way I can get an idea as to how all the other parts will fit./media/tinymce_upload/cd024c930d9afcaae32f839a6048b043.jpgMy next idea will be hopefully to angle the electric motor down between the middle and last driving wheels axles as in the drawing here but this is all pie in the sky as none of this has been tried and we will not know until the body and the chassis are built and the parts can be offered up for a trial fit./media/tinymce_upload/bc36b4dfe476b9b8453893d69775a18a.jpgAnother idea to save space is the safety valve as you may know the Hornby safety valve sits on its own right behind the electric motor my idea is to fit this valve or make a new vale inside the new tender water tank this drawing gives the layout of this new tank.The bottom section of this valve needs to be removed and the hole blocked off. The copper pipe from the valve needs bending up wards so that steam that collect in the highest point in the tender tank can release through this pipe and via the valve and spring out to the atmosphere.A gland nut assembly is located in the top part of the tank to allow a copper pipe to be fitted and the steam drawn off at this point and taken to the supper heater and will therefore be the same as the Hornby layout./media/tinymce_upload/c344c3b35c156a9bcadd2ba32e4dc1d9.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/50a3215f38226fbb9792cdb534f6f6f1.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/2b90662def16d68599f97c7a13e0b5e4.jpgThis then covers most of the new layout of the steam plant for this GWR tank engine none of the above has been tried and I don’t know if parts will fit as I have explained here but time will tell.And as maybe ideas from people following this think of ways that might help it could well be an engine built by a committee. Now its time I went to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 Yes and don't get me started on a Pug just yet!ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 With limited boiler space you may struggle to achieve the magic 30 minutes running Ken, but more importantly is there a critical mass of boiler volume below which you cannot steam effectively. That could rule out a Pug. With space in those side tanks is there any mileage in maybe relocating the whistle and super-heater alongside the chassis, leaving the the centre for the control gear. This may mean chopping the body internals about to make it more of a shell than individual boiler, tanks, firebox, etc. I take it you don’t want to intrude into the cab area with the boiler any more than necessary else it could be a crewless and gauge-less loco.Sleep tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 What about a 72XX much more room? /media/tinymce_upload/b4bd592ed263f541c25320c8ebea176d.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 10, 2019 Author Share Posted August 10, 2019 Some very good ideas there Rob and keep them in mind you are right that unlike the A3 the body on most tank engines get much wider due to the side tanks and could be used to house parts that will not fit in the given area.WTD yes the larger tank engine would make life easier but one of my favourite locos is a 14XX and must be one of my ultimate builds with inside cylinders but I think that just might be a step to far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 I am still amind Ken to integrate the boiler into the chassis frame to mount the rear bogie and to maximise boiler volume, but I wonder how the boiler expansion under heat would affect the axle running characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 WTD yes the larger tank engine would make life easier but one of my favourite locos is a 14XX and must be one of my ultimate builds with inside cylinders but I think that just might be a step to far.14XX is tiny, that would be a real challenge, but I dare say if anybody is going to meet that challenge..........it will be you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Its all a matter of the tools to make the bits and having the eyes and fingers to use them.1/240 scale live steamhttp://www.zen98812.zen.co.uk/aasherwood.html and the tech behind ithttp://www.zen98812.zen.co.uk/steam.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 Robi think the cab and coal space will house the new boiler as there is not going to be enough room to get it all in.great to the postings of other loco builders and in the days when there were less parts or materials to use.as for this engine I've lost one of the frames from the kit and looked all over but no sign of it so might have to rethink this engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 If you are prepared to use all of the cab Ken, then how about a boiler that goes from coal bunker to firebox with a grow up into the cab space - IF (big if) that will leave enough room for the mechanicals In front of the boiler. The problem then could be collecting the steam from the top of the boiler within the available body space. The missing frame shouldn’t be a problem given the way you chop them about anyhow. Is the Hornby whistle critcal for,size or can you remake it so its more compact. The poor crew may have to be stick-ons like the passengers in those tinplate carriage windows. I’ll get my coat >>>>>. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 Hi Robyou seem to have given the boiler a great deal of thought and I can see where you going and I think you are right that we will have space on the chassis for the major parts and even the whistle can have an extension pipe to bring it into the water side tank where there is plenty of room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/bfa8f510f792d39b316eb6756efad9dd.jpgThe updates to the water boiler showing it now taking up a little more space in the cab as I think Rob was talking about.As for the crew it might be possible to cut them in half and flatten what’s left of the bottom part of the figure so that they hang out of the can more?must have one more good look for the missing frame but if i cant find it i will just build straight onto the Hornby chassis./media/tinymce_upload/67f414bfd352de82537cff58a47c1d1b.jpgThe cylinder block on this tank engine needs moving nearer the first set of drivers this way the wheel arrangement and cylinder position will be correct the only thing is if you look at the drawing here you will see 2 square areas that need cutting out to give room for these drivers the only problem is that the parts that will be removed have 1.2 mm threaded holes to local the valve chest and therefore 2 new fixing holes will be needed to keep every thing steam tight this I have incorporated on other engines so should not be a problem so off to the workshop for some machining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Which drawing package do you use Ken. You seem to knock up a complex illustration in no time at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 15, 2019 Author Share Posted August 15, 2019 I draw these diagrams in MS publisher and lay out with text to generate a hard copy so that in years to come I maybe and others that run my engines will know how the model was produced.these drawings are captured with a "print screen" command and pasted in a picture publisher where it can be croped and size and save as a jpg then up load to Hornby Forum not sure if that is th correct way to go but it works for me.back to the engine in question I have carried out a few test assemblies and if the safety valve is built into the water tank I think the standard Hornby layout will all fit into the body I will go way and take some pictures to show you what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 I used to use Publisher at work, then they changed to some other more complex thing, which later folded and then all our illustrations had to be done by Tech Pubs so I lost the ‘art’ as it were. Look forward to seeing the next plan of attack. It will make your life easier if you can avoid heavily modifying stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 15, 2019 Author Share Posted August 15, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/cf430173d71a97f76bc72d4e8fb56ced.jpgJust by laying the chassis beside the body you can see how much space is available and I have drawn the out line of a possible water tank that would fit and give the 30 minute run time but I still might move the electric motor between the frames and build the more conventional type boiler? What to do./media/tinymce_upload/46683fca4f53dbe13d98e03b3299604b.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 If you can use the vertical motor scheme Ken, then that gives scope to make a large enough notched boiler that could drop below cab window line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 15, 2019 Author Share Posted August 15, 2019 That what I was thinking so will have a closer look at moving the electric motor and then might need to find the other frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now