What does the flag Unavailable mean?

[What About The Bee]

I have a particular item on pre-order. It was originally due in Autumn 2022, but a few weeks ago, it changed to Winter 2022-23. Sure, no problems. Today, the flag changed from "available to pre-order" to "unavailable".

I can find nothing on the Hornby official website, but I did find this message on the Forum, from Going Spare. Presented as found.

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I believe the item 'flag' changes from "Available to pre-order" on a green background to "Unavailable" on a red background.

There may have been changes in policy but it used to be the case that Hornby treated their direct sales operation in the same manner as any other retailer inasmuch as it was required to place an order for forthcoming stock and, alongside all other retailers, if pre-order sales exceeded the original quantity ordered, it could order a further supply if Hornby's unallocated central stock was not exhausted. If there was no stock of any particular item still available centrally, the direct sales order could not be accepted and it therefore became "Unavailable" for any further direct pre-order sale customers.

Similarly, "In Stock" changed to "Out of Stock" in respect of items already released but no longer available for direct sale.

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Thanks for that Going Spare!

So can anyone confirm this? When a message starts out with 'I believe', it bears confirmation. If it is confirmed, I think this means that Hornby will honor my pre-order?

If that is not true, perhaps someone can explain what "unavailable" means?

Further, the website should clarify these things under FAQs.

Edit: In the interests of clarity and official Hornby definition, I've sent an inquiry to Hornby Customer Services. I will post their reply for others who may have the same question.

[What About The Bee]

While still not a complete answer, here is some information.

Today, the direct link to the web page of the model gave a 404 error. A 404 error is when the page is not found. An outdated link.

Searching for the model by era gave, among other models, the thumbnail to the model in question. That thumbnail is a link, and when clicked upon gave the same 404 error.

So the web page supporting the model is no longer there. It was removed.

Now Hornby did get back to me. The Customer Service person indicated that the model is due in "within the week", so it is clear that the model IS being produced. When I quizzed that person directly, they stated that they actually did not know what unavailable flag means. That person promised to find out and get back to me. I remain hopeful of that answer.

Yet the evidence is stacking up. There was a model "available to preorder". Hornby clearly produced the model. The status changed to "unavailable" BEFORE the models arrived at Hornby. Hornby will not let anyone else order that model. I think this means that they sold every one of the models produced. This means that "Going Spare" appears to be correct! The evidence agrees with his assessment.

There is one interesting detail to be learned. The database that returns models by era is not live, but represents a snapshot in time. The web page for the model was gone (404 error) but the search by era gave the model as a result! So Hornby removed the page but didn't update the database. The database looks to be updated between midnight and ~2AM GMT, as a search by era now no longer yields the result for that model.

Unavailable Flag looks more and more like "Hornby sold out the model on pre-orders". Good on Hornby!!

Bee

[Bulleidboy]

I think we need a definition between:

Unavailable: Sold out and no more available or no longer going to be produced??

Out of Stock: Sold out but more will become available??

Both definitions are shown against models displayed in the "Shop".

[Going Spare]

As said earlier, my understanding - given by Hornby some time back - is that "Unavailable" (or perhaps better expanded to "No longer available for Pre-Order") is applied by Hornby's retail shop (treated by Hornby as a retailer alongside all others) when the shop's order for not-yet-released models has been exhausted by customer pre-orders and it is unable to obtain more stock from Hornby's central stock because all of that has been allocated to meet other retailers' pre-orders.

"Out of Stock" (or perhaps better expanded to "Sold Out here - check stock availability at other Retailers") is flagged in the same circumstances but in respect of product already released.

[Bulleidboy]

I think the confusion is in the wording?

The Club Coronation Class is described as "Unavailable" and it says "You will be notified when this product is back in stock". Should we interpret this as meaning it will be available sometime? I thought this loco was limited to 500?

The 9F Evening Star is described as "Out of Stock" and you can create a "Create stock alert". I would interpret this as meaning they have sold out and awaiting fresh stock - so it will be available in due course, and having created a stock alert, you will receive an email notifying you when it is available?

[Going Spare]

From the mass of incorrect information still on the website (despite many of the shortcomings having been brought to Hornby's attention a long time ago), I can't help but feel that whoever is managing website content is not the master of their craft that we might hope they are, either by dint of their own lack of detailed knowledge of product or policy, by being fed incorrect, misleading or inconsistent information from within the sales team, or simply not having sufficient time to do the job 'properly'.

The apology still sitting in the Forum 'Welcome Message' (from 2 years ago?) is another example, I suspect, of time (& finance?) pressures on the digital team.

Perhaps, for a Company of Hornby's small size, we simply expect too much?

You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but to please all of the people all of the time.............

[Bulleidboy]

@Going Spare

I think your spot onface_with_rolling_eyes

[96RAF]

Be aware that all such comments about web-site shortcomings are flagged to Hornby IT on a periodic basis by the Mods and their re-active response is restricted by allocation of resources versus other web-site fettles or company launch campaign priorities.

We do what we can but IT has their own agenda driven by top management.

[Going Spare]

There is very little, if anything, in my comments that has not been made to Hornby direct in recent years.

Yes, of course resources have to be apportioned within budgetary constraints, but the effect of that thin spread is exacerbated by Hornby having such a vast railway product range (without adding Airfix, Corgi, Scalextric, etc. to the mix) now considerably expanded by Oxford Rail and TT120.

The website has overtaken the catalogue as Hornby's shop window and it is all-too-easy for the public to lose faith by errors in what they are (or are not) being told.

At 75, I am no longer in the generation Hornby are aiming at but detail still matters to me and having worked closely with Hornby for some 24 years, it saddens me to see standards slipping. It needs very little more effort to get something right than get it wrong.

[What About The Bee]

This may be best described using a diagram. I have created these for the purposes of discussion. 

Please note that these may be incorrect and merely represent my understanding at this moment in time.

We know the four states. They are "Available to pre-order", "Unavailable", "In Stock" and "Out of Stock". So lets start there, four states.

Let us examine how I think we move between the states. To do so, I will pretend that Hornby have announced Model T, or MT for short.

So Hornby sets MT as "Available to Pre-order" and the quantity N in that state. N is not publicly visible, but let us assume N=500 to start.  

We, the customers, see MT and make our selection. If I choose to order it, Hornby take state transition #1. Hornby decrease N by 1, as my order takes one of the allocation. N is now 499, but there is no state change. Our state is still "Available to pre-order".

Suppose MT is a very popular model. Pretend MT is a Hornby Dublo Steam Generator Mallard with a Dynamometer car, priced at £1.00. N will swiftly go to zero and we take state transition arrow #2, arriving at "Unavailable". Mr Kohler would be well advised to order more Hornby production. MT will easily sell more copies!

Suppose MT is not so wildly popular, and we the clients sit on our hands, waiting for the reviews to come in. The shipment arrives at Hornby. Hornby will take state transition #3, copying N to "In stock". If we assume that MT had 240 preorders, the new state "in stock" will have N=260, because 500-240=260.

The reviews are positive. We the customers place orders. As we do, we take state transition #4, decreasing N by one for each order as it arrives. We do not change the state, in stock, until N goes to zero. When N=0, Hornby take state transition #5, arriving at "Out of Stock"

But what about Cancellations and Returns?

State transition arrow #6 shows a cancellation. N increases by 1, and Hornby move to "Available to Pre-order". This happened recently for a Hornby Dublo Sir Nigel Gresley.  Not shown: N not zero and a cancellation, the state remains "Available to pre-order" but N=N+1

State transition arrow #7 is theorized and totally speculative. I expect that a model returned in good condition is sold on. Similar to a cancellation, we may transition to "In stock" or simply increase N.

Stock Alerts:

From any of the three states, a stock alert is nothing more than gathering your email and advising you if either "In Stock" or "Available to pre-order" state is achieved. I do not believe this shows Hornby's intention to create more models, but simply is a way to measure demand. If the model sells out quickly, and there is a large (?) number of stock alerts, perhaps Hornby go to new production.  

[What About The Bee]

The website has overtaken the catalogue as Hornby's shop window and it is all-too-easy for the public to lose faith by errors in what they are (or are not) being told.

 

 

Hornby should consider the web site as the customer's "Local Hobby Shop", particularly so for TT. Particularly so for Rest of World (ROW) customers, just like me. Particularly so as retail is transitioning to online sales, everywhere.

A poorly executed web site reflects badly on a company. Having an indecipherable web site that their own customer service agents cannot explain is inexcusable.

 

 

[What About The Bee]

If you recall, this thread was started when a model I was after went "unavailable". After a period of time, the page representing that model was removed (404 error)

The page has re-appeared and the model is "available to pre-order" with the same expected arrival as before.

Cancellation? Possibly, the predicted arrival is this quarter (Winter 2022-23). That's a terrifically tight schedule for a new run.

The only way that Hornby could have a new production run would be if one of the other Hornby models was pushed out from its time slot at the factory OR Hornby just put a random due by date.

Bee

[96RAF]

@bee

You have not taken account that the original problem may have simply been an IT glitch at product launch and that the actual loco was still trundling along in the pipeline. Now that the IT glitch has been sorted the product reverts to as was in the delivery schedule.

[What About The Bee]

You are correct, the issue may have been an IT glitch.

My aim is to understand how the system works and "unavailable" does pop up from time to time.

From my uninformed perspective at the time (1) I had a model on order (2) the model was marked as "unavailable" (3) the page was withdrawn. I know now that this did not mean Hornby ceased production, but that was my concern.

So far, so good.

There was a new system behavior (model reappearance). The state was "unavailable" before, but 12 days later, the state is "available to preorder". So in my effort to understand the new behavior, I postulated a theory. That theory could be wildly incorrect 🤷‍♂️. Alternatively, there may be merit.

I'm patiently waiting for a Hornby response. Until then, I will observe behavior and fit it as best I can.

Bee.

I get the sense that the moderators read every communication. If so, my apologies for being so chatty.

[96RAF]

The moderators between the four of us do scan each and every post for content, but only pertinent stuff gets reported back to Hornby for consideration of action as necessary.

We are not employees of Hornby nor do we have any authority or guidance other than listed in the Rules, but we do try to keep the ship on an even keel and to help forum folk the best we can.

[Brew Man]

And a commendable though unenviable job you all make of it too.

[LTSR_NSE]

+1 Wholeheartedly agree - you negotiate a thoroughly thankless task with diplomacy & consideration for the benefit of all users. Many Thanks.