Carriages / Wagons for Locomotion No.1

[What About The Bee]

There are two period depictions of the Stockton and Darlington Railway which I would like to bring to your attention. Both predate 1835, and provide us with some guidance on consist.  

Before I show them, you will undoubtedly think of the 1925 centenary photographs. Please be careful. The carriages in the photographs cannot be prototypes or actual S&DR carriages. They were created for the centenary and should be viewed as such.  

"Remarks on the comparative merits of cast metal and malleable iron rail-ways : and An account of the Stockton and Darlington rail-way, and the Liverpool and Manchester rail-way,..." Longridge, Michael; 1832

Longridge, at the Bedlington Iron Works, wrote a book extolling the named railways. No wonder, as the firm produced wrought iron rails used by the S&DR and LMR. He was in a unique position to see and know.

The consist on the bottom provides us with the best period view of carriages I can find, mindful that I claim no special knowledge of the S&DR.

The locomotive appears as this one, not Locomotion No.1. 

Note that Longridge does NOT claim the depiction to be a depiction of the inaugural run, rather, highlights representative of the S&DR. This will become important later. [Edit: continue reading. A few posts down, the identification of locomotive will be much, much clearer. ]

Behind it, is the ubiquitous square utility wagon used as tender. Note that there if there is a water tank, it is quite diminutive, if present at all. The water tank, if present, does not appear as early LMR tenders with a barrel or tall square metal box.

Note that R40346 has the transitional type tender, clearly tall and obviously anachronistic.

Then we have chaldrons. Lots and lots of chaldrons. This image purports to be an image of a preserved 1825 chaldron, from the S&DR.  

Passengers were seated on boards, cross mounted in the chaldrons according to some reports.

At last, we can see a purpose made passenger carriage.

It appears as a double ended stage coach. The side of the carriage says Stockton Darlington. Hornby should seriously consider this carriage for the 200th Anniversary train packs. Complete with the flag carriage behind it.

~~~~

The other pre1835 image is a sketch by P.H. Reynolds. The title by Reynolds states that it is of the opening, yet fails to depict Locomotion No.1. The image appears derivative of Longridge, in all the details portrayed. Included strictly for completeness, the signature states 1834, bottom right.

~~~~

At the 50 year anniversary in 1875, several posters were produced. In one of them, we have 

This clearly states "Experiment" and that it was the "first railway passenger coach". The double ended carriage is a subsequent coach? There are any number of non-period images which label the double ended carriage Experiment, yet the poster is non-period as well. The 1875 poster is the obvious source of the centenary reproductions. [edit: clarity is brought to the "Experiment" dilemma in a later post. Keep reading!]

Should you encounter any further period images (pre 1845) of the S&DR, I would really like to see them.

Bee

[threelink]

Interesting as ever, Bee. Slightly off topic, but is the character to the left on top of the carriage in the Reynolds enlargement holding a gun, like an armed guard as in stagecoach days?

[Simon-372339]

@threelink, the character to the right appears to be wearing a military style hat.

The double ended carriage appears to have evolved over time with the two ends becoming compartments in their own right. LBRs' 1843 carriage for Queen Victoria appears to show the 2 compartments as additions to the main body. VIP as opposed to run of the mill 1st class appear custom built Adelaides saloon No.2.

When I get to grips with freeCAD I may make a post for QVs' LBR carriage.

[LTSR_NSE]

The NRM website includes research conducted into Locomotion No. 1: https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/research-and-archive/our-research#locomotion-no-1-report

Apologies for not reading all 225 pages of the report to see if it includes any info/images about inaugural rolling stock, but it might be of interest even if not.

[Rana Temporia]

I found my old Ladybird book on ‘The Story of Railways’ while clearing out my late Father’s railway room. Funny how I remember all the pictures from this well read book from my childhood!

All visible are the tender, the Chandon’s and the Experiment coach. No idea if this is from an original depiction

[What About The Bee]

Hello Rana

Oh how I wish I could tell you that your childhood image of Locomotion No.1 was an authentic period image. Sadly, I cannot.

The artist who created your image was Robert Ayton, 1915-1985. He worked for Ladybird Books and created several others in the "The Story of..." series.

But your image is in the spirit of things, so thank you!

Bee

[What About The Bee]

Soldiering on, the research continues. The first of the double ended passenger carriages was named "Express", with following similar carriages named "Defence", "Defiance" and "Union"

Here is a period image of "Union" from 1826

Of primary interest is that the carriage here is horse drawn. Longridge clearly depicts this carriage in consist, I take this to mean that it could be hauled either way.

Secondly, that we see inside and outside fares! In surrounding text, the double ended nature of the carriage becomes clear. They did not turn the carriage around at terminus, merely placing the horse around at the other end.

Next, we have this wonderful port view of Stockton-on-Tees, from 1830

On the left hand side of the image, you will find this

Squint a bit, and you will see the double ended, horse drawn passenger carriage

Bee

[What About The Bee]

Hello Three Link

Reynolds apparently liked putting military figures into his drawings. They appear as well in his sketch of a 2nd Class Train of the LMR.

As to the thought that the figure on the double ended carriage is holding a rifle? I cannot say. The sketch does not offer enough detail to be sure.

Bee

[What About The Bee]

LT&SR_NSE

Thank you sir! Wow!

On page 138 of the report, the mystery of the locomotive depicted by Longridge becomes crystal clear. I will get to that.

The locomotive I suggested in the original post was Stephenson's Killingworth Locomotive. In fact, the report you linked uses this same image extensively. It is from Wood, Practical Treatise, 1825. You may find it on Plate V.

The NRM report states that the valve gear motion that Locomotion No.1 originally had was of the Killingworth type. This makes perfect sense, of course, as Stephenson was the principal engineer on both. Per the report sketches by George Stephenson suggest this, although I will need more research to locate and examine those sketches. The NRM report further states that the parallel motion valve gear that we so associate with Locomotion No.1 was probably fitted in 1828.

Could this mean that the Longridge depiction of the consist actually shows Locomotion No.1 in original form???? More to come

Bee

Edit: the NRM report shows that the Longridge depiction of consist is, in fact, Active, or Locomotion No.1, with the slide bar motion instead of the parallel motion Stephenson wanted. Mystery solved!

[LTSR_NSE]

Thank you Bee for extracting that pertinent information. 👍

So all very logical:

• Simpler - wheels, boiler & valve gear = ‘Active’ as originally constructed.

• Fancier, more complex - wheels, boiler & valve gear = ‘Locomotion No.1’ as preserved after over 20 years of development.

[What About The Bee]

Look above for more period images and explanation of the double ended passenger carriages. They were just approved by moderation. Thank you moderators!

Hi LT&SR_NSE

From the NRM Report:

No.1 was first identified by the application of a brass number fixed to its chimney from 1827. The name LOCOMOTION was first applied, in addition to No.1, from July 1833. No contemporary record has been found to suggest that a cast name was fitted from this time, or that a painted name was applied to the boiler cladding.

What is a proper chaldron consist for Locomotion?

Pambour, 1840, contains a table which shows the work done by "Locomotion" between July and December, 1833.

Locomotion made 5,300 miles on a 25 mile line, or 212 trips. The table claims 146,011 tons of coal was hauled, "to one mile". I take the "to one mile" to mean "per mile". We must reduce the tonnage by a factor of 25, the length of the line.

This yields ~27.5 tons per trip. But the locomotive would go loaded and return empty. Therefore, 55 tons per loaded trip. 

A chaldron has two meanings. A chaldron wagon, as Accurascale wagons. But a chaldron is a unit of measure, 1 chaldron = 53cwt or 2.97 tons. That is, a fully loaded chaldron wagon contained 53cwt of coal.

55 tons / loaded trip divided by 2.97 tons/chaldron = ~18.5 chaldrons/trip.

Conclusion: 18 or 19 chaldons, on average.

It will be interesting to see how many Accurascale Chaldrons that R30346 will be able to haul. Careful testing with Hornby's OO Lion and OO Tiger may indicate the right answer¹. 

Will Accurascale release 1825 type Stockton and Darlington chaldrons? I had a brief email exchange with a director at Accurascale who was of course was tight lipped. Friendly, but unwilling to spill any beans. Time will tell. 

Bee

¹Of course, Hornby could release their own chaldrons, but then why the statement in the Q&A video about OO Locomotion "working with Accurascale"? Statement by Carl, Head of Development at Hornby. The director at Accurascale did indicate that the phrase "working with Accurascale" did NOT mean an engineering contact. Accurascale stated that there wasn't any collaborative effort between the two companies. I am left with the conclusion that "working with Accurascale" means functional with Accurascale chaldrons.

[Fazy]

So the 1925 are not ture prototypes? I can understand that but we don’t have any drawings of the original ones either. How can a prototypical model be made?

It becomes guess work the dawnings from the date are just starches not the best starting point for a model.

we then end up with either making a model of something that exists and pleases some or a model built on guess work that might not be accurate.

has for the wagon well many people just want a wagon that gives the impression and Accurascale has managed that. Hornby could well do a wagon that is S&DR. No idea dose one exist? If yes there’s a slime possible but if not then why bother. The money in research tooling etc could go towards other projects.

personally I might stick my hand in my pocket if the rocket was redone in the rebuilt form with the cylinder drop more horizontal and in green. Could then buy a couple and rename one to a sister engine and have a small layout of the L&MR.

[What About The Bee]

Hello Fazy

The concept of railway preservation begins with Locomotion. Indeed, it was one of the first to be preserved.

You bring up a valid point. What are the manufacturers to produce if neither the prototypes nor machine drawings exist. Should manufacturers like Hornby, Accurascale, et al. produce a copy of a reproduction? What if the reproduction is also an interpretation of a sketch? 

Here is the classic example. The LMS reproductions of LMR carriages. Clearly do not match the Ackermann aquatints in many details, because the LMS reproductions are interpretations. So when Hornby produced their version, they interpreted the LMS interpretation, leading to further compromise and error. An interpretation of an interpretation.

So in simple fact, going to the original sources, such as they are, will always yield better fidelity and less error. 

Here is why I always insist on period imagery. This image purports to be of Opening Day. It was drawn in 1888.

What a magnificent image. The artistry is very good. All of the features we expect are there. The bridge. The double ended passenger carriage has 'Stockton Darlington' on the side. The flag chaldron behind the double ended passenger carriage. The chaldrons. Even Locomotion No.1 is there. 

The problem? Locomotion No.1 did not look like that until 1828. Opening Day was 1825. If I was to trust this image, then my understanding would be corrupted, the factual basis of that understanding in error. Again, lovely image. I like it. Too bad it is junk.

Here is an image that purports to depict Stockton and Darlington equipment of 1825. 

Wonderful side elevation of the double ended passenger carriage. By now, you should be saying "Same problem, that isn't Locomotion in 1825". Further, take a very careful look at the double ended passenger carriage and compare it to 'The Union' in the advert and to the one Longridge depicts. In my eye, the one here is not like the others. It is similar, but suffers from serious errors in depiction, like the chassis length. An interpretation.

It is hard enough to winnow truth from imagery, with period drawings sometimes conflicting or plagiarized. Permitting non-period images, non-period reproductions which are interpretations merely confuses the issue even more.

Trust period resources and preserved antiquities. Be rigorous in research.

Bee

[Fazy]

They are lovely images, and dose make research interesting even if in the long run don’t always help researcher, depending on the specific question the researcher is trying to answer.

has for the locomotion I am very tempted to get one though not 100% sure if I should. Other then I did manage to have a footplate ride on here back in either the late 70s early 80s when she was at beamish. I’m pretty sure there was a second early loco there at the same time. But can’t remember which

[LTSR_NSE]

If anyone is looking for suitable rolling stock for Locomotion No.1 to pull, last year Locomotion Models in Shildon commissioned two exclusive S&DR liveries of Accurascale Chaldrons:

https://www.locomotionmodels.com/exclusives/rolling-stock/stockton-and-darlington-railway-chaldron-coal-hopper

https://www.locomotionmodels.com/exclusives/rolling-stock/stockton-and-darlington-railway-chaldron-coal-hopper-triple-pack

Obviously as has already been stated, these chaldrons are of a design more relevant to ‘Locomotion No.1’ than ‘Active’!

This info is only provided for interested parties by a satisfied customer.

[What About The Bee]

Drat you LT&SR_NSE! I already have 9 Accurascale Chaldrons. I like them, yet none are S&DR. Up until this very moment, I was unaware that I needed 9 more. Gee, thanks...I guess! 🙂

Lion hauling 9 Chaldrons. I think we can expect Locomotion No.1 to handle the same

Tiger and Lion banking 9 chaldrons

Bee

[What About The Bee]

Fazy

Color me jealous! You got a footplate ride on the reproduction Locomotion No.1. Fantastic!

The reproduction was built for the 150th anniversary in 1975 and gave rides at Beamish.

For those who wish to see Locomotion No.1, under steam, here at the centenary, in 1925.

[Edit: Nay Nay, it is the Hetton Colliery Engine of 1852. Apologies.]

British Pathe film, and it must be the actual locomotive, predating the reproduction by 50 years.

Bee

[LTSR_NSE]

Drat you LT&SR_NSE! …Gee, thanks...I guess! 🙂

 

 

Glad I could… help! 😂

I had a similar decision to make last year when I discovered them… but (at that time) I simply had to hope that somebody would eventually produce a suitable loco! 😬

[Rallymatt]

Thank you for the Pathe link Bee. Incredibly Locomotion was only 100 years old there and working well.

[What About The Bee]

You are quite welcome Rallymatt.

Bee

[What About The Bee]

There is an interesting divergence when it comes to "Experiment". You will see the name applied to two forms, which I will review here. We know "Experiment" existed, as it is so referenced in this period advertisement.

In "The life of George Stephenson, Railway Engineer" Samuel Smiles, 1857, we have this image and the story that George Stephenson was asked the name of the carriage. He replied "Experiment"

In the preface, Smiles acknowledges Robert Stephenson but not George. That is, Smiles communicated with Robert, but not George. Importantly, Robert shipped out to South America in 1824 with a contract for 3 years. He could not have been present at the S&DR opening. Robert Stephenson & Co did build Locomotion but not the rolling stock for the Stockton & Darlington.  

I will ask the obvious question. How could he then certify the form of "Experiment", when he neither built the carriage nor witnessed the opening? We can trust when Robert certifies the Rainhill utility wagons, as he was there, but not so for "Experiment".

The other form of the carriage is as Longridge. There is an 1881 engraving, American artist, who provides us with this

With the obvious deficiencies that the artist lived on the wrong continent and the wrong era, the image does align with Longridge and the Union advert fairly well. 

I cannot say which is correct. I would tend to accept the Longridge illustrations. They have shown themselves quite accurate vis Locomotion/Active. Yet the 50 year anniversary and centenary celebration followed the Smiles illustration, setting public expectation via popular history.

Now if I was Hornby Head of Marketing and had to decide!?!? I would simply make both, as a set. Kind of like this Churchman's cigarette card

Bee

[What About The Bee]

After further research, I am able to give a date range for the creation of the image in Smiles' Life of George Stephenson. The drawing does not appear in the first 4 editions of the tome. The first edition was published in 1857.  As late as 1860, in the fourth edition, there is only a written description. In the 1863 abridged edition, there appears a list of illustrations. One is of "Experiment", in the rough tall shed like form shown in the previous post.  

From this, I conclude that image is NOT a period image, rather, it dates between 1860-1863, just as Smiles written description dates from 1857.

I would now like to turn to Longridge, published in 1832, to bring further clarity. He also includes a written description of the consist on opening day. It reads: Locomotive Engineer, Mr Stephenson and assistants. Tender with coals and water; next, 6 waggons loaded with coals and flour; then an elegant covered coach, with the committee and other proprietors of the Rail-Way; then 21 waggons, fitted up on the occasion for passengers and last of all, 6 waggons loaded with coals, making all together a train of 38 carriages, exclusive of the engine and tender.

"Elegant covered coach" fits the image depicted in Longridge. "Elegant covered coach", at least in my mind, does not fit the 1860 to 1863 depiction in Smiles. Your mileage may vary.

 In another portion of the opening day text, Longridge states approximately 600 passengers and with the other loads, Active was pulling a load of 80 tons. This is larger than the value I computed earlier of 55 tons. 

In the first post of this thread, I warned that we should be careful when looking at the 1925 centenary images. They may have entered the popular imagination, but those centenary images are tricky. I have learned a few things along this journey, and I hope you have too!

1) The locomotive in the S&DR centenary is the Hetton Colliery locomotive of 1852, not Locomotion No.1 of 1825. There are similarities, enough so to fool the uneducated, and that included me. 

2) "Experiment" is as Longridge shows it. His period written description matches the period depiction. "Experiment" as Smiles describes in 1857 and illustrates in 1860 - 1863 are both non-period. May I suggest that it makes for an inspirational story about the hero and as a plot device helps to move the plot along, but the plot device may not be authentic. From Smiles, the 50th anniversary poster of 1875 picks up the image. The tall shed also appears in the 1925 centenary, cementing it in public imagination. It appears in the reproduction train at Beamish. The tall shed passenger carriage may yet be real, but it is decidedly not "Experiment".  

3) Active, with slide valve gear, is portrayed in the Longridge depiction and called that in the text. Active was fitted with parallel valve gear in 1828, 3 years after opening. This explains why Locomotion No.1 doesn't appear as we expect in Longridge.

4) Locomotion No.1 had a number 1 on its smokestack by 1828, but was only renamed to Locomotion by July 1833.  

5) Longridge states the tender had water. Based on the depiction, it was a tiny tank, just above the wooden wall of the utility wagon.

Bee

[What About The Bee]

ADDENDUM

During the Range Launch Q&A, Hornby Head of Brand specifically asked us to write in with our wishes. If you pre-ordered R30346 Locomotion No.1, then here is your opportunity!! Martyn said, send your ideas in to marketing. "No guarantees, but we'd like to hear from you"

Challenge Accepted!

In this thread, we have examined quite a few pieces of rolling stock associated with Locomotion No.1.

There is the tall shed passenger carriage illustrated in Smiles tome Life of George Stephenson. If you would be interested in this carriage, write to marketing@hornby.com, referencing this thread https://uk.hornby.com/community/forum/carriages-wagons-for-locomotion-no1-377869 and state your desire. Personally, I would order one!

There is the elegant covered coach illustrated in the period depictions by Longridge. If you would be interested in this carriage, write to marketing@hornby.com, referencing this thread https://uk.hornby.com/community/forum/carriages-wagons-for-locomotion-no1-377869 and state your desire. This is a definite for me. Experiment per period correct depictions, set for rolling in consist, hauled by Locomotion No.1! Yes!

If you would be interested in the horse drawn carriages, illustrated in the Union advertisement, write to marketing@hornby.com, referencing this thread https://uk.hornby.com/community/forum/carriages-wagons-for-locomotion-no1-377869 and state your desire. There are several named versions. Defiance, Union, etc. One set of tooling, with multiple tampo artwork, gets multiple models. I would preorder these as well, particularly so with an eye to mounting on a motor bogie, the horse dangling via the traces. It would look spectacular trundling along, just as we see in the period artwork.

This is our chance to get the best rolling stock for Locomotion No.1 models, rolling stock that matches to period illustrations, in time for the 200th. If you pre-ordered Locomotion No.1, you owe it to yourself to tell Hornby about the matching rolling stock.

Take action!

Bee

[What About The Bee]

Spend 60 seconds!

Big smiles! Trust me!!

Bee

[What About The Bee]

I have an update to this topic.

I have been reliant upon Longridge, of Bedlington Iron Works and his publication of 1832.

Yet in this publication of 1827, we find an article about Opening Day, from the Newcastle Courant, dated October 1st, 1825.

https://books.google.com/books?id=0qdVAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover

It appears that Longridge plagiarized this same newspaper article, with the exact same consist, with the "elegant covered coach" as previously discussed in this thread.

As the S&DR opened on 27 Sept 1825, and the article is dated 1 October 1825, I do not think it possible to find a more contemporary account! Yet the possibility does exist 😉

I would suggest that a contemporary newspaper reporter would know the names of basic things. Dial "English coach 1820s" into Google and observe the images returned. They look like a stagecoach. Lending support to the Longridge illustration, degrading support to the Smiles illustration of 1860ish.

Bee