Stanier coaches

[Kenneth-365689]

Would a thicker washer work? Or would the coaches ride too high? 

[Silver Fox 17]

3 minutes ago, Kenneth-365689 said:

Would a thicker washer work? Or would the coaches ride too high? 

It depends, another washer MAY stop the bogie swiveling. I have no idea how much the wheels catch but packing with washers makes/allows the body to rock more if there is clearance, that is if they dont tighten the bogie to the underframe. 

Others can try it but I personally will stay with material removal.

[Kenneth-365689]

I'll give the 'thicker washer' a try when mine arrives. Will report as to whether it works or not. 

[Rallymatt]

Thanks for posting the photos @Silver Fox 17 👍Gives us a clue where to be looking. Must admit I prefer the material removal method over extra washers. Not a fan of wobbly stock 

[Silver Fox 17]

I have not received a reply from Hornby yet but they do say up to 7 days for a reply.

However, someone mentioned the spec stating minimum radius being R3 which seems strange (especially when they say R2 for the pacifics) so I have been looking at the coaches. The Pullmans, Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3 all state R1 yet the 50' and 57' (apart from the LMS 50' brake) state R3.

Along with the added washer between bogie and coach, this leads me to believe Hornby knew that before selling the BR maroon 50' version a couple of weeks ago there is a problem with these Stanier coaches.

[Hobby11]

Sounds like a design error, like the other ones on earlier models I expect they'll modify it like you've done and all we be well in the future. For the time being at least we have a solution. Thanks, Garry!

[Rallymatt]

I just received my 50’ Stanier Full Brake, superb model and I like the corridor end’s they supplied, I wonder why they don’t do these for the MK1s etc. nice touch. R3 is the tightest curve I have and there is the slightest drag compared to straight line but doesn’t appear to be catching 

[Silver Fox 17]

I have just received a 4th and it is the same as the first two. The third (yesterday) was catching but went around the curve with wheels rubbing which is when I realised the main point of issue. The one today, (last in BR maroon I will be getting), stops as soon as it hit the curve as in the video but after grinding the bevel it is now fine.

Edited April 9 by Silver Fox 17

[Silver Fox 17]

1 hour ago, Rallymatt said:

I just received my 50’ Stanier Full Brake, superb model and I like the corridor end’s they supplied, I wonder why they don’t do these for the MK1s etc. nice touch. R3 is the tightest curve I have and there is the slightest drag compared to straight line but doesn’t appear to be catching 

With one of four just catching with the other three all stopping and yours like my third I wonder if more than one mould is used and there are very slight differences with them, especially as two others were like yours. I suspect there may be a few moulds to allow quite a few parts made at once. Tri-ang used to have theirs so on the part, 2/4 or 2-4 meant there were four moulds and that piece came from the second one.

[LTSR_NSE]

@Silver Fox 17 are the wheel b2b’s identical?

Or could variation there be affecting some more than others?

[Kenneth-365689]

Got mine about an hour ago.. Checked on 3rd rad.. Very tight.. Took bogies of and fitted thinest washer I could find... Couldn't get bogies back on, so that's not going to work 😑... Took washers off and refitted bogies... Set up two long straights and. 3 3rd rads on kitchen table and made a cup of tea... pushed the wagon back and forth over the transition about 70 to 100 times, turning it round every so often, whilst drinking afore mentioned cup of tea. Now runs sweet as a nut.. No fetterlin required... just needs running in.  🙂🚃🚃 Hope this is useful. (May not work in every case, Ts & CS apply 😂) 

[Silver Fox 17]

27 minutes ago, Kenneth-365689 said:

Got mine about an hour ago.. Checked on 3rd rad.. Very tight.. Took bogies of and fitted thinest washer I could find... Couldn't get bogies back on, so that's not going to work 😑... Took washers off and refitted bogies... Set up two long straights and. 3 3rd rads on kitchen table and made a cup of tea... pushed the wagon back and forth over the transition about 70 to 100 times, turning it round every so often, whilst drinking afore mentioned cup of tea. Now runs sweet as a nut.. No fetterlin required... just needs running in.  🙂🚃🚃 Hope this is useful. (May not work in every case, Ts & CS apply 😂) 

Running in would never have worked on mine unless the flanges removed the plastic edge. That would take longer than my life time so 30 seconds with the grinder sorted it.

[Silver Fox 17]

1 hour ago, LTSR_NSE said:

@Silver Fox 17 are the wheel b2b’s identical?

Or could variation there be affecting some more than others?

Never had one issue of B to B being out yet so never checked but 8 out of 8 wheels all did caught the edge.

As the coaches all run perfect on plain track and through points including the double slip I doubt they are out.

[Postman On The Rails]

5 hours ago, Kenneth-365689 said:

Got mine about an hour ago.. Checked on 3rd rad.. Very tight.. Took bogies of and fitted thinest washer I could find... Couldn't get bogies back on, so that's not going to work 😑... Took washers off and refitted bogies... Set up two long straights and. 3 3rd rads on kitchen table and made a cup of tea... pushed the wagon back and forth over the transition about 70 to 100 times, turning it round every so often, whilst drinking afore mentioned cup of tea. Now runs sweet as a nut.. No fetterlin required... just needs running in.  🙂🚃🚃 Hope this is useful. (May not work in every case, Ts & CS apply 😂) 

T & Cs = Tea & Cookies 😝 

[John-L]

Finally received my first full brake, as expected it was very tight in corners.  I’ve got the R3 track from the sets.  I opted to try simply cutting the ‘bar’ off that runs across under the bogies.  Worked well, although doing that means the under frame brace needs to be glued in place.  I might try the dremel on my next one.

 

Edited April 15 by John-L

[Tim Allen]

The LMS brake coach has been put back a year according to the website, now Spring 2025 (31-05-25). The other coaches are still Spring 2024 (17-05-24) and the Loco is still Summer 2024 (30-06-24) for DC version.

I wonder if its due to the issues that have been reported, the brake is a smaller coach than the passengers.

[Silver Fox 17]

32 minutes ago, Tim Allen said:

I wonder if its due to the issues that have been reported, the brake is a smaller coach than the passengers.

As far as I know the coach length should not matter as from buffers to bogie centre etc should be the same, it is the distance between that is longer and the offending material would be in the same location as it has the spring mechanism for the kinematic coupling and I doubt that would be different for the 50 and 57' vehicles.

[gc4946]

I haven't preordered any of the longer (57 foot) versions yet, will wait for reports on running qualities before committing to buy.

My 50' carriage has marks on the underside where the wheel flanges are rubbing against the plastic. It's not been modified in any way from when I first received it some time ago.

Edited April 15 by gc4946

[Rallymatt]

A thought had today was regarding the wheels. Proportionally the flanges on TT:120 are deeper than on OO; if the designer used references to a OO model this is something that could have not at first been obvious. The wheel diameter on the 50’ is noticeably bigger than the later BR designed rolling stock. As Garry has shown, a little trim of the chassis clears the problem. 

[John-L]

20 hours ago, Rallymatt said:

A thought had today was regarding the wheels. Proportionally the flanges on TT:120 are deeper than on OO; if the designer used references to a OO model this is something that could have not at first been obvious. The wheel diameter on the 50’ is noticeably bigger than the later BR designed rolling stock. As Garry has shown, a little trim of the chassis clears the problem. 

Yes this is almost certainly what happened.  The wrong wheel profile during the design/testing phase.  

[Skelton Junction]

Mine is as lovely as a mk1 on the straights and only slightly reticent on curves so initially I’m going to adopt the aforementioned running in method. It’s doing an hour or so with the 08. 

[SMR248]

On 15/04/2024 at 16:25, Silver Fox 17 said:

As far as I know the coach length should not matter as from buffers to bogie centre etc should be the same, it is the distance between that is longer and the offending material would be in the same location as it has the spring mechanism for the kinematic coupling and I doubt that would be different for the 50 and 57' vehicles.

Re bogies rubbing, I'd suggest that the relevant parameter is the distance between the centres of the two bogies.  That'll mean that the angle of turn of the bogies will be bigger with the 57' compared to the 50' so, all other things being equal, the 57' will be worse...

[SMR248]

On 16/04/2024 at 15:59, John-L said:

Yes this is almost certainly what happened.  The wrong wheel profile during the design/testing phase.  

Not much "testing" then!  The big difference between TT120 and 00 is that TT120 is closer to scale and the clearances are less.

I'm going to wait before buying any 57' carriages.

Presumably they're frantically "fettling" them in China before shipping them.  Or perhaps Hornby are blissfully unaware?  I wonder how/if they fixed the Mk1s?

[Rallymatt]

The issue is the axle boxes in the moulded bogie sides allows the wheels to run ‘too far up’ in the bogie. Axle cups could fix it or the metal frames that other manufacturers in TT have sometimes used. It’s a variable in production though, my single 50’ is not affected although the running height of the wheels in bogie is clear to see. It’s at least 1mm off centre. 

[Silver Fox 17]

37 minutes ago, SMR248 said:

Re bogies rubbing, I'd suggest that the relevant parameter is the distance between the centres of the two bogies.  That'll mean that the angle of turn of the bogies will be bigger with the 57' compared to the 50' so, all other things being equal, the 57' will be worse...

That is not the issue, the problem is the moulded ridge set back from the bogie pivot. That dimension would most likely be the same irrespective of the length of the coach, it is where the Kinetic spring is attached and they are not going to make that longer.