96RAF Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Now we have £30, if you want to talk to your trains, Do you talk to your trains John?I've sworn at mine a few times PJRob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Now we have £30, if you want to talk to your trains, Do you talk to your trains John?I've sworn at mine a few times PJRob Funny ;o) I tell my mouse off! I was going to have voice control (but my wife does it better) Joking aside. I ordered the headset but returned it! I should have stuck to my initial thoughts, why would I want to talk to my trains and I am deaf so it isn't for me. I will have to get a microphone though for announcements etc. Has anyone done announcements? How do you get that station type sound other than talk in an empty biscuit tin whilst holding your nose ;o) PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Hi PJ,What I will be interested in finding out is how LD will interface with existing programs. For example, if a program currently starts a train from point A and stops it at point B, if the train passes a sensor which triggers one of the actions you have described, what happens to the unfinished program which was controlling the train - is it terminated prematurely or suspended in some way awaiting re-activation?Ray Good points Ray that only HRMS can answer. I tried running a train program and set up another program in points, set the first program running then a short while later set the points program for a shunt. They didn't like it, the first program stopped but the train kept running at the speed it was when the second program started and didn't take any further commands. HRMS must have considered programs and timing issues. I do think things will be different with LD. I am not sure we will run programs as much as now, but could be wrong! I think trains will be more free running subject to the sensors so timing may not be as much of an issue. A train will run until a signal is red and it is told to stop. speed will be dictated by signals, eg, if next light is red, one sensor back could dictate speed to cruise. In the same way when a signal changes Green the train can continue so the stop, go, speeds are subject to signals in this example. It will all be fun, another learning curve no doubt but still good fun. What we really need from HRMS, based on methods of programming now and later with LD, is which run on their only and which integrate, if they integrate as you say Ray it will mess up program timings. Although HRMS like us to play, try and learn, I think as you do we need guidance on the matters stated. LD will have a lot of commands as we are discussing but, I was surprised you can only change the one signal, say train passes turn to red, I didn't see where a last carriage passes the signal you can change a previous signal, and one before that, and one before that, to Y, YY, G. Maybe I have missed something but we don't have access to everything yet or the Guide. If they are not in LD settings we can only put them in programs but timings will be out or in signal programming but sequence is out on Train-Tech 4 aspect signals. I think the programming would be best in LD with a single command to each signal not as a sequence in signal programming. The reason I say this is that WE WILL want two trains on the same track with just one free block between, if set in signals it will alter 3 signals at a time Y,YY,G and that would be wrong, if a single command is sent to each the latest command would over ride anything set previously. eg signal 101 Y, signal 103 YY, signal 105 G (3 separate commands) Good here isn't it ;o) PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 .... all the programming would be done, as it is now, within RailMaster......Open RM ... This is the list of commands you will be able to use with LDHi PJ, I think you are agreeing with me then, all programming will be done in RM and not LD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 .... all the programming would be done, as it is now, within RailMaster......Open RM ... This is the list of commands you will be able to use with LDHi PJ, I think you are agreeing with me then, all programming will be done in RM and not LD. Hi RDS RM is the software that processes all the data whether it is from the eLink etc or the LD controller. For RM now we have hardware, points, signals, decoders and eLink, for LD there will be hardware, sensors and a LD controller. Plus sensor tags of you can call them hardware. Loco Detection icons go on the schematic layout and control what happens when the sensors sends information back for processing via the LD control box. Although separate they both need RM to process the data. But we do not need to worry about this, all we need to know (after installing them) is where and how to program them and make sure one method of programming doesn't clash or conflict with another (subject to how the software has been programmed. We need RM to give some guidance really do you think so?) PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 What we need is a beta tester for ld to slip us a few 'secrets' without breaching their nda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 What we need is a beta tester for ld to slip us a few 'secrets' without breaching their nda. I agree RAF but, they are not going to do it. They will not risk anything getting out that could affect the Patent.I doubt they would even consider it if they had the patent and the product.They also wouldn't rish competition getting to know anything either.We just have to wait, and chat, and wait!PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 As we continue to wait for LD (as we have no option) ;-) Why not discuss it a little more? (only those who want to though) - What do you think about LD?- Do you think LD will change the way you use RM now?- Do you think LD could allow you to be a train driver, reducing the amount you change signals and points?- Have you any concerns how LD works with programs etc, etc Shall we start with these and see where we go. If you have other thoughts or questions which may appear to be an advantage or disadvantage it would be good to discuss them here as HRMS are reading the forum. They know what can be done with LD but our discussions may raise questions they have not thought about, good for them to consider every aspect before launch as it makes the product better and problems less so. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 PJ, good morning, whilst these are excellent questions, surely the biggest one is how much will it cost., and can anybody other than graskie, afford it. If many of us find it a financial step too far, it wont change anything. It would be interesting to see how many have paid to talk to their trains, in this present worsening financial climate, its launch, whenever, could be, a damp squib, if price stops it selling. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 PJ, good morning, whilst these are excellent questions, surely the biggest one is how much will it cost., and can anybody other than graskie, afford it. If many of us find it a financial step too far, it wont change anything. It would be interesting to see how many have paid to talk to their trains, in this present worsening financial climate, its launch, whenever, could be, a damp squib, if price stops it selling. johnHello John and good morning to you too. Loco Detection will not be for everyone. But it will be one of those items that grows as sales grow, by that what I mean is some will wait until they see what it can do, how it witll revolutionise model train driving and control. Some may not afford LD but, I am sure this was probably said with eLink and RM. The same can be said for signalling a cost to far. But I do gtthink sometimes peoplle look at money spent by those who do it all in one go, you don't have to do so. The beuaty of signalling you can add 4 signals for £100 and with Train-Tech the decoder is built in. If you want 3 or 4 aspect you could pay £30 each. Less than the cost of a train with sound John. Loco Detectionwill be the same, you will have an entry value for a controller, a few sensors and tags. For £100 you can buy a few more, agaun less than the price of a train with sound! Both the above can be built further over time, months even years it is up to you but, you do not have to spend a lot to have some of the enjoyment of controlling your trains this way. PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I have to say that the Hornby range of DCC train control is ideal for me. It's relatively straightforward, good price level and well supported. Whilst I have no idea what is in the pipeline for LD I suspect that Hornby will release a great product that compliments the rest of the range well. Will I buy it? I doubt it. Not really to do with price, how can it be when we dont know how much it will cost, more to do with I don't, with my current layout, need any greater level of functionality. In the future who knows. I will however be paying close attention to it, when it comes, and to the feedback on here from any early adopters. R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Bonjour, Rog, obviously, you are in same class as graskie, price not significant. When you cost other LR systems, i beg to suggest, that we could be in for a shock. Elink and RM, were essential, if you wanted to enter DCC market. A train with sound is £85, PJ, i would like to think that you are right about the price, but that little nagging doubt persists. For us poorer pensioners, whose preference is to eat, i am afraid, its a bridge too far, but passes the time, on sunday afternoon, speculating. I have dipped my toe into DCC, learnt a lot, and am immensely enjoying my sound locos. However, the future for me, is maintain what i have, and look to do a little landscaping with the bags of Black Friday bargains. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Unlike a lot of you, despite my enormous wealth and ability to buy anything at any price, I'm nowhere near going in for LD. I still have so many other things to do on my railway first that I'm not too bothered about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Well, with Graskie, Rog, and me ruling ourselves out, PJ, we are beginning to get a group of elite people, of which, you are one. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 PJ, good morning, whilst these are excellent questions, surely the biggest one is how much will it cost., and can anybody other than graskie, afford it. If many of us find it a financial step too far, it wont change anything. It would be interesting to see how many have paid to talk to their trains, in this present worsening financial climate, its launch, whenever, could be, a damp squib, if price stops it selling. john Hello John Here were the forecast costs of LD Railmaster Loco Detection System Starter PackR8306 Pack contains: LD Module, 1Pk LD Tag Strips, 4 x LD Track sensors. £79.99R8307 LD Module £69.99R8308 LD Track Sensor £ 7.50R8309 LD Tag Strip £ 9.99R**** LD Track Sensor Transformer £ 9.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I have to say that the Hornby range of DCC train control is ideal for me. It's relatively straightforward, good price level and well supported. Whilst I have no idea what is in the pipeline for LD I suspect that Hornby will release a great product that compliments the rest of the range well. Will I buy it? I doubt it. Not really to do with price, how can it be when we dont know how much it will cost, more to do with I don't, with my current layout, need any greater level of functionality. In the future who knows. I will however be paying close attention to it, when it comes, and to the feedback on here from any early adopters. R- Hello RogerB I believe you and many more will be watching and when you see what can be done using LD you will no doubt join the many happy users. As for prices see message to John a short while ago, it will give you some idea. You will be able to do as little or as much as you want to or can afford to, you may do one loop (if you have loops) and later another etc. PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 PJ, thats good, £160, plus, how long ago was that, 1 year, 2 years.. does not sound so bad, add that to signals, talking to trains, where do we get to. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Well, with Graskie, Rog, and me ruling ourselves out, PJ, we are beginning to get a group of elite people, of which, you are one. john A group of 'elite' people John ;o) As said earlier, I believe LD will be one of those things that will grow in time. Some will go straight in, some will wait and see, some will not be ready as Graskie says. But once people can see what can be done with LD then it will become attractive to many, subject to stage of layout, time and funds as everything else is. PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 How do you drive your trains? - Do you set them off and control them from your elite or RailMaster letting them run back and forth or round and round as you wish?- Do you run routes using the main train program?- Do you run routes using programs in points or signals?- Do you run them another way? Most of the above are allowing us to run our trains freely from A to B, Carlisle to London Euston or anything large or small in beween. But when we do this something is missing that you would get in real life if you were and engine driver. Signals! As soon as you add a signal, anywhere on your layout, you have included what every train driver has to watch for and work to, something that allows trains to drive safely but, also something that can make trains run late! The bit we don't see in real life are the blocks between the signals, this is where safety is really built in the our railway network and this is where Loco Detection comes in to its own. The way we drive our trains will change with Loco Detection, I believe. Instead of driving or programming a train to go from A to B (or several trains on their journeys), we set a train off to go from A to B but the sensors in the track, controlling blocks, will control points and signals on their way. With one train A to B we will be chuffed to see signals change on the journey and the train travel and arrive as planned. The interesting part, I think will be running more than one train, especially if one runs late, as one train, can change a signal to stop another. Planning journeys with priorities will be fun, I look forward to this. As we learn and get used to the new way I will be even more fun to say, passenger trains, including DMU's run to program or as near as possible now we have just been informed a slow moving goods is coming up the line and we need to priorities travel, to get the goods through but not put passenger trains to far behind time. What do you think??? Do you see things differently with LD? PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westernwill Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I'm with you on this PJ.I came back late to model railways and am scrambling to get up to speed with DCC. I don't even have all my baseboard bult yet but that has not stopped me building a temporary layout and starting to learn about RM. I got my first automatic point working the other day and will start to experiment with a couple of signals soon. So I would be quite happy to get a starter LD pack and just play with it on a simple loop just to find how best to use it rather than wait until everything else is done.Finding out how to use it may well change my mind about the design of the layout, spacing of points or signals etc. I don't know yet because I know nothing about how it works.At my age you want to pack as much into every day as you can.Those are my thoughts anyway.Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrook62 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 about 4th may 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I'm with you on this PJ.I came back late to model railways and am scrambling to get up to speed with DCC. I don't even have all my baseboard bult yet but that has not stopped me building a temporary layout and starting to learn about RM. I got my first automatic point working the other day and will start to experiment with a couple of signals soon. So I would be quite happy to get a starter LD pack and just play with it on a simple loop just to find how best to use it rather than wait until everything else is done.Finding out how to use it may well change my mind about the design of the layout, spacing of points or signals etc. I don't know yet because I know nothing about how it works.At my age you want to pack as much into every day as you can.Those are my thoughts anyway.Bryan Hello BryanI think you have the right idea, there is a lot to learn and it keeps expanding al the time. What we can do with out trains couldn't have been dreamed about 5-10 years ago.RailMaster and DCC has taken model trains to a new level, Loco Detection will take it even further. Enjoy your hobby building the layout is all part of it.PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_van de burgt Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 @PJ,The prices for the LD you announced today... Is it guessing or knowing?Grzz, Hans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Hello hans_van_de_burgt The prices were quoted mid December 2013. Doesn't time fly! They are certainly prices worth considering when working out the cost for your layout, they will give you a reasonable idea what to expect although the final lauch price isn't known yet. PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 about 4th may 2016Thank you. I was wondering if anyone would actually come up with a date.Interesting as well, 3 days before my guess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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