Jimbo1707820979 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I will soon be buying a set but am pretty clueless at wiring and totally inexperienced at soldering, though I intend learning and "practise, practise, practise" (as advised by the experts).The suggested wiring diagrams for analog have me really worried, especially some of those suggested "for Newcomers". So I am wondering wether to start off with a fairly basic analog set, DCC-ready, run it for a while then maybe upgrade to digital. The "Duke of Gloucester" set is one of several I rather fancy, having been brought up in Gloucester a few centuries ago. My layout will be restricted by space to 6ft by 3ft 6. I would also like to have Starter Oval plus Extension packs A, B and C and run at least 2 locos after buying an extra controller.So I would really appreciate hearing your views. Many thanks in anticipation. Difficult for me to learn via UTube etc. as I am deaf and the subtitles, when available are usually very garbled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 To be honest 3ft 6 isn't very wide for an oval and definitely not two. If you're starting from scratch DCC is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Thanks, WTD. I may be able to stretch the width to 4ft. Problem is, I have trouble reaching over the other side LOL. I'm trying to think how to overcome this (short of growing longer arms) as the far side will be against a bedroom wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 One way is to have a lift out section so you can stand in the middle of the layout. It's easier if it just has a town or factory etc. on it and not track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 You can always cut a hole in the middle to stand in. That's what a lot of people do, or you could put the layout around the walls with a lifting bridge, (or hinged gate) to get access to the door. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Snap WTD. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I was going to say great minds but it would just be bait for PP to try and be humorous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hi JimbopuffIf you can stretch to four feet wide, you do basically have available the Trackmatt size of 6x4 - and as Poliss said you could have a hole in the middle to operate from (might be a bit tight - but do-able). As to Analogue or DCC - the decision is yours and yours alone. As your starting from scratch, as WTD says, probably best to go with DCC, and if sticking with Hornby, try and go for the Elite controller rather than the Select. I think the track packs (A,B,C etc) that are currently available, may give you a layout slightly smaller than the 6x4 that used to be available sometime ago. You say you like the DoG set, it will be DCC Ready, so can be run as an analogue layout before things start getting too serious. If the bug really bites you might find 6x4 a bit restrictive, but it's a start. Try and get hold of Brian Lamberts book "The newcomers guide to railway modelling" it tells you everything with easy to understand wiring diagrams (usually cheap on Amazon). Best of luck and don't be worried about how simple a question may appear, you will gets lots of different answers, but then everyone does things differently - sometimes two different answers will actually give you the answer/idea you were after. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 As said above, the decision between dc (analogue) and DCC has to be yours.For me, I'd go DCC, as it is more realistic in that you control each locomotive directly, and not the track, which brings in the need for switches, and isolating sections. With DCC you need none of that. If you get DCC fitted loco's, there is no need to take them to bits to fit decoders, either (although a good model shop would do that for you for a small fee.)You need to know that you can put a DCC fitted loco on an analogue track, but you MUST NOT put an analogue loco on a DCC track, it's motor will very quickly be damaged.In both cases, for a basic layout there is NO soldering involved, the wires either plug in, or clip on.A 'hole in the middle' layout is simplest, as if you try to stretch over a three foot wide board, the stuff at the front gets damaged! Try it on the dining room table - put a couple of salt pots or something on the edge in front of you, and see how far across you can reach without knocking them over! Two feet is comfortable, two feet six is pushing it!A three-foot wide board is very limiting in what loco's you can have, the radius of the curves will be too tight for most loco's other than 0-6-0 types.Regarding the lifting board across the door idea, nothing wrong with that - BUT - you MUST have a door that opens OUT, or should you 'fall asleep' in there, (especially as you have poor hearing), with the board across the door, nobody else can get in!It can get a bit fiddly ensuring good track alignment for the lift-out section, as well. There are ways of doing it, if you are a decent carpenter, or can employ someone to do that bit for you. (Your local model rail club might help, if you can find them).Don't hesitate to come back and ask, if you want more advice.Remember,- the daft question is the one you didn't ask! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 A question regarding DCC control 2e0, you say you control the loco not the track, how does the info get to the loco. Just having a quick stir. DCC is definitely the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 It's magic, WTD!You do know that they are all worked by smoke, anyway.No, you say -Well - if the smoke gets out, they stop working! (Doesn't apply to 12"/foot models, with a bonfire under a big tin of water, in their belly!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I too agree that DCC is the way to go. Probably the simplest way to stsrt is with a set. The problem is that the Elite controller which was mentioned above doesn't come as part of any sets. You either get a cheaper set with the Select controller, or you go for a more expensive with Railmaster (RM) and the eLink controller. Also as said, the Select is very basic and you will very quickly find if you get at all serious that it is very limiting and you want to do more. The RM/eLink option is a full capability and cheaper than Elite way to go but RM is a software package which had to be installed on a PC/laptop, so you would need to think about whether you want to do computer control before going that way. You can download a trial version from the DCC section of this site so you can have a look at it to see if it might be for you. And just on the Brian Lambert book mentioned, he also has an excellent and comprehensive website you can find by googling him, well worth a look and more as you progress. And you've passed the first test by the way - doing some research before diving in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 He also occasionally answers questions on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robespierre Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Just bought my son's first set for xmas and we went dcc ( Somerset Belle ) although frustratingly there seemed to be more choice for analogue sets if you wanted a big steam loco set.Anyhows, DCC the right choice without a doubt. With the benefit of hindsight though, and as mentioned earlier in the thread, I'd probably have gone for an elink equipped set which is better placed to fully exploit dcc. Actually I think an Elite with Railmaster combo is probably the sweet spot so I'm sniffing some used ones on the Bay.As for choo-choos, some nice, often new, loco drive dcc ready stuff available on ebay ; I'm sooo pleased with my 2339 Mallard, which is I believe from 2004!I tell you it is a slippery slope, before long they'll be nose to tail in my spare room like Woodham Brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelerXYZ Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I would reccomend that you go digital, though I personally use anolouge. I like the challenge of wiring the anolouge sections ect, but may eventually switch to DCC when my gear comes from Australia.XYZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I used to have a 6' x 4' layout as a youth but I can't possibly imagine being able to work in the middle of such a restricted space, unless you just put your head through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 If it's just for a bit of scenery building 15 to 18 by about 24 inches will suffice, if you're 'normal size'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Graskie oh Graskie oh Graskie. If you're in the middle that means you can have the outside dimensions bigger because you no longer need room for an operator standing outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Poliss oh poliss oh poliss, I stand in the middle of mine, but in a 10 1/2' by 7 1/2' room. However, standing in the middle of a 6'x4' must affect rail development in the middle, restricting the running area to as little as depths of 2' at the short ends and only 1' depth along the sides. I must admit, I wouldn't fancy that. Be like wearing a tight corset, not that I ever have, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Just sticking with the black fishnet stockings and heels Graskie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Thanks Fishmanoz. Very helpful, as are all those posts which the kind folks on the Forum have sent me. So thanks to all -so many replies I have to be lazy and say a collective THANKYOU.About research, yes that is half the fun.To deal with other points 1. I have already bought a DCC set "The Cornishman" on EBay. So all advice to go digital I followed after a lot of head-scratching, mainly because I already have An N15 loco and 2 nice little tank engines, all analog. I doubt if the tanks can be worthwhile converting to digital (even if possible). It's what is called "jumping the gun" -too much eagerness. 2. About layout 6 x 4ft. I think I have cracked the problem by planning to install it with the narrow end against a wall so I can squeeze round the other 3 ides. No getting marooned in a hole in the middle or falling asleep to be found days later.The Brian Lambert book I bought already. Very good but it was this that put me off analog wiring. Maybe easy for clever people but I can't make the grade yet on electrics.So thanks a bundle everybody for your kind contributions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Normally I would recommend DC for someone starting out for it's basic simplicity when starting out, plus the sheer amount of DC items available out there, but as you want to go DCC or DCC in future then DCC is the way to go for you. I would try to keep it as simple as possible when starting out, don't go the PC route straight away, computer control is boring and takes a lot of the fun out of running a layout once it's all set up and working. Don't bother with the Select it's too limiting in it's capabilites when your knowledge grows. Also bear in mind 1st radius curves should be avoided as modern steam outline and some diesel locos won't run around them.0-4-0's such as the holden 101 class design and stretched Caledonian pug, class 06 are easy conversions to DCC, only the scale ex-airfix/Dapol L&Y pug made now by Hornby is one I wouldn't bother with it's wheelbase is too short and it gives pickup problems when converted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 To prove that the standard 0-4-0 is easy to make DCC, here is one I did earlier. I used to make them DCC for the business so customers had a choice between DC and DCC fitted off the shelf. This is a Caledonian Pug./media/tinymce_upload/967.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/968.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Just sticking with the black fishnet stockings and heels Graskie. Yes, thanks for those, Fishy. You'd worn them out a bit when you passed them on to me, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Good for you. Yes, they did a great job for me so enjoy. Try to keep all the fish on the outside as I did, else the fins tend to snag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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