Is selling model railways and models viable as a business anymore?

[The son of Triangman]

Is selling model railways, spare parts and models a viable business anymore? Having had just 3 enquiries for items during my trial run of my business experiment since June 2018  I question whether it is a viable business anymore?  Thoughts please?

[morairamike]

I would think the biggest problem is size of stock holding versus viability. I come to your shop and say I want a 5 plank wagon with Davies Coal on the side. You don't have one but could in 5 days. So I go home but then find it cheaper on the web with next day delivery. So like many others I go with the web.

The web is wonderful but web shopping has started to denude the town centre if many shops not just model shops.

You could become a web agent where you buy the wanted wagon off the web and with a mark up selling to me. That way you offer a service but with nil stock in house. There are some who don't trust the web with their details.

[Rule 1 Applies]

You're asking too simplistic a question. You haven't given any information about how you ran and promoted your 'business experiment', so it's impossible to judge why you only got 3 enquiries without knowing more.

 

I suspect that the answer will depend very much on whether a 'small shop or trader' engages with the 21st century and promotes the heck out of its business using every possible avenue available to it, or whether it just sits there and expects people to find it. It also depends on exactly what it's offering, services, prices and so on.

 

'Build it and they will come' may have worked 30+ years ago, but the world has moved on a long way in a short space of time.

[96RAF]

As yours is a specialist business Paul I think the answer ultimately is visibilty to folk.

 

Until your name is on peoples’ lips as the only place to go for ‘...your range,,,’ then you are like a small shop hidden in a backstreet that nobody walks down. I am thinking of nameplate makers, wheel specialists, metal castings, etc Which are in the same category as you.

 

Advertising costs money but may be essential to get you going. Look at how Peters Spares started out, now they are the first place I look to look for bits. Small ads in magazines, popping up on social media, keywords in your website meta-data that search engines pickup on, etc.

 

A price list of bits whilst not essential is what folk like to browse through online or on paper.

 

After all the effort you have put in setting it up it has to be worth pressing on to get your name more well known.

Rob

[The son of Triangman]

It's tricky to sure Rob. Some good answers there, I was v.pro-active with marketing using every affordable avenue and web site based, but had just 3 enquiries over the time period. Yesterday I decided to call the experiment a failure it has had long enough. I think it has to be a sideline business and run with other things and a job to make it worth doing. I am looking at what it can run with.

 

It's great to hear everyones thoughts so keep them coming.

[2e0dtoeric]

MR, I do not recall seeing ANY ad's for your budding business anywhere except on here.

As you were only advertising spares for T.H. loco's, and I don't have any, I wouldn't be a customer, anyway.

Have you considered checking just how many potential customers who DO run T.H. there are out there?

Most people will have the more modern Hornby/Bachmann etc stock, I suspect, so Triang parts are irrelevent to them.

[LCDR]

 The key may be a unique selling point which means you are offering a service that people want but no one else offers. This is unlikely if all that is being offered is more or less what can be found elsewhere.  Selling spare parts is more likely to be a USP than selling models where there are the huge box shifters in Cambourne, Cheltenham, Sheffield,  Widnes and the like, but you then need to get the message out there that you are in business. Repairs is also another USP but in this  throwaway world few people take advantage if this. The key may be to advertise, but this will always be speculatively risky.

 

Have you a website, do you trade on line? Smaller traders probably do better if they do.  I looked just now in the Model Shop directory for Norfolk but could not identify your business.

 

However model railways are still a minority activity and making a living from it will always be difficult.

[walkingthedog]

Same as Eric, I didn’t see any advertisements.

[Fazy]

I remember you doing a taste a few years ago and shut it down. What did you do different.

 

You say you did advertising. Did you take out space on RMWEB site.. have  you a Facebook page. Did you ask to link up with the FB groups  such as 'old school  modelers(none ddc )'  on Facebook.

 

Did you have dedicated website.

 

How about pages taken out in Hornby magazine or railway modeler etc. What are you selling is it just Hornby Margate. 

 

Margaret model parts are a bit tricky to sell how many times have i hard advice from people saying buy a none runner from ebay and use it for parts needed.

 

Older models are becoming the intrest of a small group of modelers that have got use to finding parts for themselves. And will come to you once in a blue moon ie 3 times in 6 months. 

 

Oh have you a Ebay sellers account! If not why? 

If I need a part eBay is a frist port of call. 

 

And no I'm not being harsh for no reason. I am having to do a business plan for part of my degree. And you ask hard questions. 

 

[96RAF]

I would have thought Colin Flowerday would have been your first customer as he is always banging on about how nobody repairs or provides spares for his old locos these days.

[Rule 1 Applies]

Something I find really interesting in this thread, which is very relevant, is the number of respondees and their post counts. There have been seven different respondents and - apart from morairamike and me - the post counts (at this moment) are 2248, 6192 and (to me, an astonishing) 9026, 10453 and 18975.

 

Why is this important? Because it (a) illustrates the (small) scale of your audience here and (b) that there is a tiny minority which has the time to spend visiting and posting thousands of times, others who only visit occasionally and ... and the vast majority which does neither.

 

If you want to make a success of a business, it's the latter group you need to harness. With no disrespect intended, no matter how much time and inclination those with thousands of posts have or how much you're on first name terms, they're still the same few people. That tiny minority is simply not going to spend even a picofraction of what is needed to keep a business running.

 

Even with the likes of rmweb, there may be more people there and they may shout louder, but (despite what it'll have you believe) it's still a minority of railway modellers. The rest of us have a gazillion other things to do and can't necessarily spend a lot of time roaming internet forums on the subject.

 

I know that many people are put off all railway-related internet forums simply because finding the real nuggets of wheat that they are interested in amongst the deluge of chaff and ravings of the hardcore, tunnel-visioned nerdinista is too difficult to bother with.

[walkingthedog]

That is a very good point, and even though my count is far too large I have no locos that M-R could help me with. 

[96RAF]

I googled Margate-Richmond and only got 2 solid hits, one from Wix saying the site is not connected

 https://www.margate-richmond.com/

 

and the other from UK Model Shops directory, which listed your basic services along with contact details 

https://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/suppliers/43842-MargateRichmond

[RB51]

A pointer I was given when I was setting up a business was

 

1st year = lose money

2nd year = break even

3rd year = make money (if you have done everything properly)

 

R-

[atom3624]

Then close? !!!

 

I think the MANNER in which people shop has changed substantially.

 

There are many 'routine items' which are always needed at irregular intervals - eg buffers, wheesl, tyres, screws - and more major items which could be 'set in stone, only every 3 months not greater than £x', for example.

 

Many of 'our works' suppliers will have ACCESS to items listed as 'in stock, small delays' but they've guaranteed availability from THEIR suppliers, and will not be invoiced unless 'picked' / ordered.

 

I think it's NICE to have a physical presence - shop - and somewhere where people may wander regularly - not necessarily shopping precincts, but where they can have parking, etc. - ideal world - but the majority of sales will be internet sales.

 

Get 3D printing going better, with 7,000% better quality for 0.001% of the current price, and it may simply be a case of purchase the program and enter the digits - out comes the 275th rendering of 'Flying Scotsman' ...

 

We all have our own 3D printer and off you go!!

 

Al.

[atom3624]

It's the future ... weren't you told?   !!

 

A bit like the food dispensers in Star Trek and Red Dwarf I suppose!!

 

Al.

[Yelrow]

Sot, bearing in mind your vast stocks, and your new small home, presume you have a storage unit,  surely you will need to dispose of your empire, so on line sales would be the way to go.

[Tony57]

I run Triang Triang  Hornby and Hornby Margate and have several that need rewiring and some minor repairs If I knew you were open for business I would be in contact you for you to do the repairs once I knew the price.

As I did not know you were open for business I have not been in contact with you. Don't give just yet adverts would be usefull...

[Rana Temporia]

Some good points on here and I must admit I have considered a side business and doing swapmeets but having spoken to some other people who have been doing it for years have stuck with eBay and the like as a number of traders I have spoken to have abandoned their shops as they are makingso much more on line they can’t justify opening for the few people that come through the door. 

I think the main problem with the type of business MR wants to run is that most people want something that works and when it doesn’t they get something else and if it’s modern it’s probably not repairable anyway. I used to use Model Spares (Burnley), Eask Kent Models and Blackwells of Hawkwell for my Tri-ang and Hornby spare parts. I could get anything I wanted for a reasonable price from people who knew about the items. As the job I had then often took me to sites around Burnley the chap who ran modelspares was extremely helpful and let me go round to see him while he magnetised some of my locos and let me choose some spares. I know he is still trading on eBay and have bought off him but he has a much lower profile now. 

As referred to by others above, I have got used to purchasing non-runners and partially complete locos for parts and now have a large selection. I often dispose of the unwanted bits at a silly low price just to prevent build up. Just look on eBay at the number of Tri-ang Princess rolling chassis for salE from pennies to silly prices. No-one wants them, they want the rods, pistons, pick-ups, screws etc. Parts that get lost or break. The chassis and wheels are virtually indestructible apart from the plastic insulators. 

If I want for example a piston block and individually it’s £10 or more due to rarity but I can get a non-runner chassis for £5, take the piston block off it and get £5 for the rest it has only cost me to get into a swap meet or for postage. Of course, this doesn’t cover my knowledge or time but as it’s for me I don’t mind. If I had to think about my time it wouldn’t make any business sense. 

I would really like to see MR’s business succeed as it’s needed but don’t know how it will fit in with the changes in the model railway community. I would suggest advertising in the main magazines but that’s an expense with the risk you won’t get the money back. There is already the advantage that you are well known and respected. I suppose it’s up to you and what you want to do?

[DB200]

 I think a lot of web sellers think all they have to do is design a web site get it up and running and hey presto they will instant millionares. More fool them it is a harsh world out there nad you have to extra special to win and did you/do you offer any thing different than anyone else?

Also 3 enquires in three days is not a disaster it takes time for people to find your web site and trust it but after at least 3 goes you ought to know this

[LMSFan72]

M-R, my day job is nothing to do with hobbies, model railways, toys,... but it is to do with surplus stock. Mainly new items that the last owner didn't use and that other people need now. If we substitute "need" for "want" and recognise that "want" in the consumer world is getting more and more like "need" in the commercial world (people with less home/family/down time in today's efficient business envionment value time in their hobbies/interests) we can draw parallels. I hope this doesn't come across as a lecturing because I am honestly trying to relay an apporach that seems to work - but a forum is a tough environement to do it in!

 

There are some really good points in this thread, from what to expect in building a business to what to do about marketing. The reality is it takes time, but during that time we have to work out what we want to focus on. There are some mainstays that I have always followed that are pointed out or alluded to above, but, that I will state in one place:

 

- Know your Customer

 

- Know their behaviour and their channel

 

- Know your competitor for their business

 

The other key thing when we talk about "need" - stock is king, relaible delivery counts, but make sure it's correct.

 

If you get those things understood and addressed any business is viable. Price becomes interesting but less important. Particular if there is not a great deal of "hard" cost in it - think hard about if you need to make a margin on what it cost you - or is customer acquisition, or cash, king...

 

Let's consider the Customer: is it the enthusiast who had their collection from young and therefore are inherently wedded to it; is it the next generation that wants to re-live memories with the collection but may discard for something newer if it's too difficult to maintain; is it the person who has decided to get into something new with a cheap buy... it may be all of them, but, how will they find you. Channel to the market is key.,, and affordablility may be to some and not others. What are they trying to find - do they have a description or a part number or a loco only. How do you help both of you determine the real need?

 

Are you serving a global customer base or a very local one? How do you help things get there reliably and fast? Are there existing channels out there that you can share - does it matter if they take a fee or not? Are your Customers going to have repeat needs or is it all very infrequent - do you need them to know you or can you piggy back a broader marketplace? Can you transition from the broader marketplace to a relationship business?

 

There are many answers to all of this and the answers aren't easy, but, if you have stock and want to sell if for a decent income then working your way through thoughts like this - if only to try out an initial test/idea - are what I would do. I truly hope that helps.

 

 

 

[AndyMac1707817969]

Yes, it is a viable business but you have to go to where the customers are, forget bricks and mortar, your own website unless you have a big marketing budget. You have to sell through sites such as Amazon and eBay who do all the marketing for you. Yes, they take a commission but it is a lot less than you would spend trying to promote a business yourself. You can also start it up while still having a full time job, all you need is a mobile phone or tablet

 

Selling anything online has its drawbacks, there is an ever increasing problem of fraud and abuse by buyers and the basic rule is don’t sell anything you cannot afford to lose, both it and the money. It is not as big a problem in the world of model railways as its it getting elsewhere but basically if you have a dispute with a buyer you are going to lose. EBay, PayPal have seller protection but it’s not worth a dime. As the seller, you cannot prove you sent them the item you claim to have; you can’t prove they did not send you back the item they said they did. Any disagreement and places like eBay will come down on the side of the buyer, they guarantee the buyer the item they pay for and that means if a buyer is prepared to lie through their teeth then there is absolutely nothing you can do about it, kiss the item and the money goodbye.

 

Even if hell did freeze over and eBay did come down on the side of the seller then they can just appeal to PayPal. PayPal can ignore any judgement made by eBay and then even after that if funded by a credit card they can appeal to the credit card company. In all these cases it is up to you to prove what you are saying is right not the buyer. A chargeback on a credit card can occur up to one and a half years after the transaction and it’s up to you to prove the chargeback claim is false.

 

Larger retailers just look at it as a cost of business, online buyer fraud instead of older forms of stealing such as shoplifting. Most people do not care, as they are only ever buyers. For a small business, it can be a big problem even if it’s not fraud the ability for buyers to return delicate items such as locos after having them for nearly a month often means they arrive back in a state where they have to be heavily discounted. In other market sectors such as clothing it’s a standing joke, buy the clothes, don’t take the labels off, wear them for a couple of days and then return them. Free clothes for life and you never have to wash a thing. It amazes me there are any small retailers left

[Brooklyn-345325]

The truth is, times have changed, and with the rise of online shopping and big box stores, it can be tough for smaller businesses to compete.

That being said, don't give up just yet! Have you considered partnering with other businesses or attending events and shows to increase your visibility? And have you taken a look at your marketing strategies to see if there's anything that can be improved upon?

Additionally, https://www.successionresource.com offers some great resources for business owners, including exit planning and succession planning. It may be worth looking into to see if there's anything that can help your business succeed in the long term.

Mod note - welcome to the forum and good advice but if this turns out to be a sales pitch ...

[mjb1961]

Everything is on Ebay nowadays, anything I need wether its model railway related or not I always search Ebay ,then the internet and amazon, facebook could be another place for you to try and sell your stock, there are plenty of model railway groups where you could advertise your self.

[atom3624]

Old thread resurrected!

There are many who have been 'closet enthusiasts' for years - perhaps they have no actual railway, but love locomotives, perhaps they simply like collecting things.

I'm seeing regular sales of 'new' or 'as new' items which are probably 15-20 years old, probably purchased new for £80-120 but being sold for £100-250 and often more depending on apparent 'desirability'.

If you sit on them long enough, some can make money for you.

That's not why I returned to this hobby.

Al.