Old 1830s Engines (Model Loco availability)

[Chrissaf]

Why are there so few early locomotive models???? Reply.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Rocket was made by Tri-ang Railways in the 1960s, and has had versions made by Hornby more recently.

 

More modern were the GWR Lord of the Isles, 4-2-2 loco, and the Caledonian Railway loco 123, another 4-2-2, that uses the same basic chassis, but with a different front bogie.

 

Both from Tri-ang Railways in the 1960s, and also released more recently by Hornby.

 

The latest LOTI is even DCC ready!

 

 

Various early locos were made in the "Milestone" series of kits by Ks models...including Lion. (Aka the Thunderbolt from Titfield...)

 

Ratio has made at least one Midland Railway loco kit....but now we are getting a bit modern! 😉

[Plumloco2]

Theres also the American outline but easy to convert to  British looking Bachman USA 0-4-0 Dewitt Clinton,     2-4-0 John Bull & 4-2-0 LaFayette. 

 

[Buz]

Hi LBSCR Nerd

How it works is something like this.

The people with the money and time are my age born in the sixty's so we want sixty's trains for nostalgia

So when we were children the people with time and money wanted twenties trains for the same reasons.

The young want the trains they see now so the manufacturers produce some of the trains we want because they sell, and some trains the young want to continue the market. and so the market changes over time..

From 1813 through to1830's locomotives where very much smaller than they are today making it a technical challenge to motorize them and get them heavy enough to pull a meaningful train.

So they will cost more to produce the market is very limited for the real early trains so hard to justify on a commercial basis.

Only something likely to make money, the Rocket or the Titfield Thunderbolt are likely to be produced in fact Triang and later modern Hornby produced the rocket and coaches, Keyser produced a motorized kit for the Thunderbolt with lion plates as well so it could be either.

But sadly the demand for the earlier trains just isn't there possibly because the rolling stock is not made as well as the locomotives or possibly because its just to far back in history for enough people to be interested.

regards John

[96RAF]

Back in the old days when there was very little in the way of choice, folk made their own, either from kits or scratchbuilt.

 

Nowadays the target audience wants every variant of every marque, which the manufacturers as Buz says bias production towards what will sell in vast numbers, so if you want a ‘rare’ model then unfortunately for you its back to modelling per the old days.

 

With regard to motorising - nowadays we have a superb choice of tiny motors and mechanisms and the tools that allow us to motorise anything, e.g. look at the almost nano-mechanisms in cameras and phones. Who would have thought you would have complex multi-function 1/76 scale r/c vehicles or miniature jet engines that work so efficiently. 3-D printers allow folk to make complex parts at home. N gauge with sound is commonplace, so motorising a Rocket, etc (kit or scratchbuilt) should be a doddle.

[LBSCR Nerd]

What about everyday old engines like the planet type or the jenny lind. Even the treverick locos.

[walkingthedog]

Limited interest I guess. 

[LCDR]

Building upon RAF96's reply, there seems to be a tendency to forget what railway modelling is all about. We have been spoiled over the last couple of decades by the plethora of ready to run models from the various suppliers. I was deeply into modelling from the 1960s, and when I started if I wanted a particular locomotive or item of rolling stock I modified what was available to make the approximate shape of the type I was wanting. I converted a Triang LMS 0-6-0 tender locomotive  to a SE&CR Wainwright class C using cardboard to reshape the firebox, smokebox, cab  and tender top.  Crude as it was I was happy with it. When Kitmaster brought out 'Biggin Hill' I used the chassis from a Triang R50 Princess to make myself a light Pacific (34033 Chard), as I recall.

 

Now 3D printing is improving in detail there must be opportunities to manufacture early locomotives in fairly small quantities, using motors in the tender to make it go.

 

Rather than moaning about why doesn't Hornby make this or that why not investigate these options and try and get a group together who can commission a short run model which wouild satisfy these minority interests?

 

At the present time I have two fleets of gauge O wagons under construction. The first batch I illustrated earlier which are based on the 'Manchester Ship Canal" tyupe contractor's side tipping wagon, the next are steel bodied tippers with brakes on one side only as used by APCM Swanscombe. There is no way a ready to run manufacturer would make these, so I took it on myself to build a train of them. That IS railway modelling!

[81F]

Theres also the American outline but easy to convert to  British looking Bachman USA 0-4-0 Dewitt Clinton,     2-4-0 John Bull & 4-2-0 LaFayette. 

 

John Bull was a British built loco exported to the US where it received a lot of add-ons If I could get a second I would thinl about making a more Britisg verson though giding the motor would be an issue as the Garden shed of a tender was an American addition.

 

The LaFayette might be an easier proposition. this was a "Norris" type of loco that was exported from the states. I have two versions, LaFayette herself and Prussia (which went to Germany). I think there was a Norris called England which was exported to the UK but I cannot fing any drawings/photos so I do not know how this differed from the Bachmann models.

 

There is a chap that makes some 3d prints on Shapeways for Lion and the FR copperknob and I am sure someone made a model of der Adler which was a Stephenson Patentee.

[LBSCR Nerd]

What about coffeepot engines. Example: Glynn.

[Rana Temporia]

With the old locos the frames were often open as per the FR Bury type. Not much space to hide a mechanism but they often had 4 wheel tenders that a spud or black beetle could power and leave plenty of room for detail. I’m not sure if anyone still makes early type wheels, i think Ks did at one point? 

[LBSCR Nerd]

Sodor and Mainland No.2 Neil is older than alot of engines

[96RAF]

Here are a few scratch build candidates from Beamish Museum. I have no idea of what they are.

 

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[LBSCR Nerd]

I don't know how to scratch build. RELEASE Liverpool and Manchester locos!!!!!

[Fazy]

Learn how to. It's a lot easier then you think. Go read some topics on RMweb or the likes. Parts available from Alan Gibson, Markits, Brassmasters, 247models,Wizardmodels, SouthEastern models to name but a few. If you have never made a model start small a wagon and work up. Once you get good move onto Brass and or White metal kits buy tools a little at a time as you need them ie you don't need a soldering station for a plastic kits.  

 

 

EBay is good for tools glues paints etc. And don't worry about making mistakes we all do. 

 

And the great thing about brass is if you mess it up you just unsolder and redo. 

 

Drawings are available  for most loco's and some one will have it. 

 

Don't be afraid to try. I jumped in two feet frist about ten years ago and missed up a few times but when you get your frist loco to run you'll suddenly find it becomes one of your favourites better then any out off a box because it's yours and no one else has one. 

[ellocoloco]

DJH Model Loco issued a kit of La Mataró, first locomotive in Spain. A 2-2-2 built in Crewe in 1848. HO scale but close enough.............theres one on Ebay at the moment, a snip at €350........its makes scratching building much more attractive!

[LCDR]

Sadly this is symptomatic of the plonk and play approach that permeates the hobby nowadays, where people expect, nay demand, manufacturers to make everything and the model making aspect of the hobby is allowed to wither and die.  Many component and kit makers, many of whom were small cottage industries, have gone out of business, but any of us who were modellers in the 1970s and 1980s will remember people like Crownline, and MTK who made kits of parts which allowed modellers to modify the few ready to run models to create different locomotives and rolling stock.

 

Go back a bit further into the 1950s and 1960s and unless you were prepared to build kits or make things from scratch you had to put up with a very limited selection of ready to run, much of which was not to scale and pretty much freelance. 

 

We have to be extremely grateful that Hornby is still in business and producing so much variety and most to a high level of accuracy., Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol and Oxford too have catalogues of excellent products far in excess of what Hornby Dublo, Trix or Tri-ang had to offer. 

 

If you want something that doesn't fit into the mainstream interest, which generally means either 1930s to 1960s, or modern image, then I am afraid you are going to be disappointed. There is extremely limited interest in anything pre-Great War, and no manufacturer is going to risk their profitability by majoring on that period. The only items that are likely to make it through are those things that survived into the mainstream periods. The LB&SCR A1 class did, which is why you get these but I very much doubt you would get a 'Gladstone'

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Gladstone...

 

Hello, NRM?

 

How about that for a limited edition model in the NRM In Miniature series?

 

😉 😀

[Anglia998]

Hornby did a LIVE STEAM model of Rocket in 1980. It is listed in the price list for Cat. No.26

It was fired by gas from a small cylinder. The gauge was three and a half inches.

There are several for sale on eBay. I have never seen any promotional literature for it.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

There was a fair bit of promotional literature about at the time....

 

Some leaflets have also appeared on eBay.

 

The track system was unusual, in that the one element would make straight track is assembled on way around, and a curve if assembled another way.

 

Points were introduced, as was a model of a L&M coach, in effect a larger scale version of the Tri-ang Railways issue!

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Do I detect a Thomas theme developing in the Locomotives being quoted by the O.P.?

 

What about coffeepot engines. Example: Glynn.

[/Quote]

 

 

Sodor and Mainland No.2 Neil is older than alot of engines

[/Quote]

 

Sodor and Mainland?

 

😉

[LCDR]

If I remember correctly the 3.5 inch Rocket track was made to represent fishbelly rail which was the track style for early railways. It makes me wonder if RTR primitives were made Peco would have to add Fishbelly Streamline (with stone block sleepers) to its range?

 

If the RTR manufacturers were to go down the road of making primitive era locomotives the same problem would also exist that afflicts pre-Grouping models at the moment, the lack of matching carriages and wagons.  The old Triang OO Rocket did have models of the First Class carriages it is true, but nothing else. The open third class and semi open second class carriages never appeared. There were no primitive era goods trucks, which were fundamentally different than rolling stock from the end of the Victorian era onwards. 

 

And why not go the whole hog and make Brunel's Broad Gauge locomotives too. The Broad Gauge penetrated a number of unusual places, including Victoria station and Clapham Junction in south London, and Farringdon on the Metropolitasn Railway. That would really need a new track system!

 

Maybe we should have a poll about whether the primitive era should be covered by the train set makers?

[LBSCR Nerd]

Do I detect a Thomas theme developing in the Locomotives being quoted by the O.P.?

 

 

What about coffeepot engines. Example: Glynn.

 

 

 

 

Sodor and Mainland No.2 Neil is older than alot of engines

 

 

Sodor and Mainland?

 

 

In reply to that, the S&M was the first steam railway on sodor.

[LBSCR Nerd]

I picked up the bachmann John Bull for $50 at a local hobby shop. The john bull was built by Robert stephson and Co.