Raising doubt of the motors of the latest generation locomotives

[5735guy]

I know the detail of the Locomotives produced by Hornby and the competition surpasses of any previous generation models. BUT I raise doubts regarding the motors used and their longevity. From what I can gather many are 'sealed units' therefore making maintenance impossible. Will they still be running like the Hornby Dublo/Wrenn motors for many years to come.

[koo9]

I have the same concerns, many motors are no longer available so once they die, they die. UNLESS you hold a spare motor!

[walkingthedog]

I think you'll find that most if not all the modern motors are available. They are fairly standard unlike the specialist ones used in the past.

[LCDR]

koo9 said:

I have the same concerns, many motors are no longer available so once they die, they die. UNLESS you hold a spare motor!

This confirms of course the unsoundness of collecting modern trains in the anticipation of

them appreciating in value. For one thing any loss of magnetism in the sealed unit will render it unusable.The old open frame motors could be demagnetized and now there are replacement 'neo-magnets' too.

A large 'cottage industry' has grown up around

keeping old pre-war Hornby and Bassett Lowke trains running. There are a large network of people who actually make replacement parts including motors. But the Triang Collector's Club does not support the restoration of old Triang to quite the same degree as

the HRCA or BLS, and there is little or no support for Airfix, Mainline, Lima, etc. This is particularly galling because the method of construction of the late 20th Century model railway locomotives makes repair very difficult, without cannibalising other

models, which are becoing more and more difficult to find.
There are people like Comet Models who make kits for replacement chassis which accept commonly available power units, but their range is limited, and not evberyone has the skill or time to do this.
A

statement about the policy of Hornby and the other manufacturers on support going into the future would be a useful thing to have.

However until this is clarified I would suggest hoarding model railway locomotives is not a good idea.

[Tony57]

I have to agree with LC&DR about the large cottage industry that keep old pre and post 2nd world war trains running as a member of trix twin railway collector association spares are available to members for many old engines including Lilliput Westerns

 

which I have 7.

 

Spare motors for all models are a must, it would make sence for hornby to keep to a set number of motor types and re-use them into newer model engines so they will always be available as spares. Just look at how many model engines used

 

to X04 motor for example

[Fazy]

i bought two lms pugs of eBay 1 hornby 1 dapol the hornby one needed a new motor costing £5 which is not to bad the dapol uses the same motor as when i took it out to give it a good clean. i swop them round just to see

 

but for some reason the hornby

 

pugs have two different motor so what ever you do keep the R no safe for spares. i do agree hornby would do better if they kept it done to say 5-10 motors

[VESPA]

All disposable motors. All useless models unless someone knows different, after the motor dies.

[The son of Triangman]

Disposable motors are fine when they are available as a spare, some modern disposable motors for some of the models are already difficult to get hold of.

 

A range of serviceable motors would be good, I'm not advocating a return to X.04 days but a

 

motor that you can change the motor brushes on would be good rather than having to find a replacement motor every time the brushes wear out would be good.

[poliss]

I agree. Disposable motors are are bad idea.

[The son of Triangman]

Yup, I totally agree Poliss they are a bad idea. We could end up with a situation of having nice locos sitting around in cabinets awaiting motors simply because the brushes have worn out.

[poliss]

I have some locos with 44 year old can motors. One refused to work, but I changed the brushes and off it went again.

[Fazy]

i see some are saying motors are getting hard to find? is this just in model shops or on the net if so is hornby doing it on deliberately to make us have to bay a new loco every time a motor dies or just good old bad planing by the company

[The son of Triangman]

Yep some motors are getting very hard to find. We could in theory end up with display cabinets of locos that carn't run anymore becuase the motor brushes have worn out and it means replacing the disposable motor with a motor that is no longer available.

 

Motor

 

brushes can of course be made from bits of brush carbon but whether the average modeller would be able to or want to do that remains to be seen.

 

 

[Andrew-689402]

How about Hornby source decent, reliable motors and charge a couple of quid more for their models? As it is I have far too many failed Hornby paperweights gathering dust; M7 x2, S15 x2, H, Adams radial, 700, re-tooled Terrier. All dead-and it isn't like these are cheap toys.

[atom3624]

I wouldn't give up too soon - just stay vigilant.

I saw an S15 motor advertised on Ebay 3 months ago.

Establish if that motor is used in other models - perhaps it's being sold but advertised with the other locomotive's details.

Al.

[RDS]

@Andrew

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[Jimbo1707820979]

Andrew, you have just reason to complain. As I see it you have several hundreds of pounds-worth of "paperweights" there. How have you managed to get so many motors to fail ? So far I have had only a couple of failures among over a hundred locos and that was through chancing analog locos on a DCC line in my early days. To make matters worse, my wife threw them away !

[Tony57]

Hi Andrew

Have a look on the New Modellers Shop Website he has several of the motors you require currently listed as available.

[Brew Man]

I've just discovered New Modellers, I bought a decoder socket from them, a Hornby one that no one else seems to have, not even Hornby.

[Basingstoke]

This is a real concern, and so is the availability of other spares. At the moment I have a couple of West Countries (Spamcans) in need of a valve gear set, which seems to be very difficult to locate. It would be helpful to have a readily available supply of spares for the main moving parts of all locos, because they will inevitably wear out, however careful you are.

LCDR mentions Comet chassis, and available motors. Comet products are great, but by the time you've bought chassis kit, set of wheels, motor and gearbox, you will have a very expensive replacement chassis. It will be beautifully engineered, but expensive. And of course the time and skill to build it will be required. The most widely used motor was the Mashima, but Mashima ceased trading a couple of years ago. You can still obtain some sizes, but the most popular have sold out. I believe that Mashima and Hanzono offered replacement brushes - they are tiny rods of carbon, so very difficult for ageing eyes. Not at all like a good solid Dublo brush!

I'm surprised that nobody wanted to acquire the Mashima assets/rights, and continue production, so there will be a bit of a vacuum for kitbuilders.

I suppose that it is just another way in which model railways reflect real railways. With the rising cost of overhaul, many preserved locos have been temporarily or permanently retired from use, and there are cases of parts being taken from one loco to keep another running!

[atom3624]

Main thing is to keep an eye on Ebay.

Valvegear sets, detail kits, etc., come up irregularly, but frequently.

Al.

[threelink]

Basingstoke has hit on the nub of the problem. If we want models of near museum quality appearance there is a price to pay in terms of durability and longevity. Delicate, scale motion, for example, will inevitably wear more quickly than the robust but somewhat over-scale motion of, say, a 1960s Hornby loco. I don't suppose that I am alone in wanting the best of both worlds - scale appearance and durability. The problem is that such is unachievable in the r-t-r market at a price that I, and I suspect others, would be prepared to pay. I long ago accepted that if I preferred longevity over appearance I would have to eschew modern r-t-r and rely on second-hand, older technology. It is not a decision I have ever regretted. Older tech is comparatively cheap and lasts a lifetime, in the rare event of failure I can swap parts about, as per prototype, to keep things running and I just love the look, weight and sheer stage presence of old Hornby locos, especially when detailed up a bit. None of this excuses the failure of manufacturers to maintain a healthy supply of spares nor does it excuse what I regard as obsolescence deliberately built into models to create or preserve a future demand for products, but I suppose that one cannot criticise manufacturers for commercial decisions on which their future survival may depend.

One either opts for scale appearance that will involve replacement of locos every ten years or so, or one accepts a less than scale appearance that enables locos to last a lifetime. It's one or the other because, sadly, there is no choice in the current r-t-r market. Hornby Railroad aside, it's scale or nothing. For myself, the buoyant second hand market in old stuff enables me to create more stock than I will ever need and which will last longer than I do, but clearly that market cannot last for ever. I shall make hay whilst the sun shines, but I do fear for the hobby's future as an affordable pastime.

[Tony57]

Hi

Why don't Hornby just improve the quality and thickness of the metal moving parts so as to reduce the wear. Would a slightly stronger and 2,000 of an inch thicker increase cost that much so the moving parts are less likely to get bent or wear out.

As to new motors why Hornby can not stick to just 7 different motor types I don't know, that way replacements would be easier to obtain and fitting could be made simpler.

With falling personal income and with the unaffordable higher prices New Hornby stuff is now off my shopping list, older Ringfield powered locos is what I am looking at buying now and good second and thirdhand rolling stock.

[Bulleidboy]

This has been mentioned before, but Sams Trains did a video on cheaper motors (£2) that were a replacement for, in the case of the video, a Merchant Navy Class.

[ColinB]

Hornby don't make motors, well not of late, so I suspect they are using "off the shelf" ones. So somewhere in China someone is making them, that is how come Sam found one. Trouble is I suspect once there is no demand for thousands of them the Chinese stop making them. I hate to say it but if Hornby were to go bust, then you would probably find some firm in the UK making them. Sadly at the moment if they did it, they would get into trouble with Hornby.