Can HF track cleaning units damage modern DC locos?

[david_watts1]

I have been using a Gaugemaster HF2 unit on my OO analogue layout for years and never thought anything of it. But, someone mentioned that modern locos have a lot more electronics inside them, blanking plates for chips, lights etc. This started me thinking, is it time to retire the high frequency units in case they damage my new locos?

[96RAF]

Only if they are on track whilst the device is in use.

[What About The Bee]

Hi David

The damage is presumed to occur to the decoder chip.

If you are running DCC ready locomotives, without a decoder chip, there is no issue. DCC ready jumpers merely shunt power from the track to the motor. It is electrically identical to an analog locomotive.

The DCC decoder is in-between the motor and tracks. The decoder analyzes the digital signals and presents the appropriate power to the motor. The DCC signal is high frequency.

The Gaugemaster Cleaner is also high frequency. The decoder chip, and its tri-state inputs, will see that Gaugemaster Cleaner output.

If you have decoders installed, do not use the Gaugemaster Cleaner. If no decoders, you are perfectly safe.

Bee

Edit: I will defer to wiser heads and those obviously far more experienced than I. I leave my apparent error as a record, struck through, to indicate an issue

[david_watts1]

I purposely mentioned ANALOGUE or DC usage only since I know that they will 'fry' digital chips, so Thanks 96RAF but your comment doesn't really help me.

[ntpntpntp]

There's potentially more to it than just possible damage to decoder fitted locos.

The old Relco unit which pre-dated the Gaugemaster HF was shown to generate a high voltage in order to cause ionisation across dirt and air-gaps to be effective. How similar is the method that the HF2 uses (I don't know)? I would be concerned that it too may generate a high voltage, and this is where modern DC locos could be at risk if they have electronics eg. for lights. For example, in N gauge it's well known to experienced modellers that the directional lighting diodes in some Dapol locos can fail probably caused by voltage spikes (not necessarily related to use of an HF cleaner). The component can be sourced and replaced if you can do fine soldering, but it is a weakness.

I used Relcos back in the 70s and early 80s with my 00 and N layouts. In my original post on the other thread I also mentioned wheel pitting due the sparking when the unit operates, I did see some evidence of this. I consider "track cleaner" a bit of a misnomer. Yes it assists with continuity but doesn't really clean anything. I also found their effectiveness decreased as the layout became more complex with more wiring joints, fishplate joints etc. I chose to retire the devices a long time ago.

To be fair, you'd think Gaugemaster would issue an advisory if there was a widespread risk they were aware of, and there are lots of "might" and "could" in what I've written above, but for me the bottom line is if you keep your track and wheels clean they're not necessary so I'd rather remove/avoid the risk.

[96RAF]

I purposely mentioned ANALOGUE or DC usage only since I know that they will 'fry' digital chips, so Thanks 96RAF but your comment doesn't really help me.

 

 

I stand by my advice as a loco these days can have quite complex circuitry for lights and other kit on the PCB, which can still be an issue if on track with an HF cleaner regardless of the DC shunt. The proof is in the pudding - ask Bee to volunteer one of his complex PCB locos for you to try, but make sure he rigs it for DC and gives you a certificate of no blame when you cook it.

[What About The Bee]

Hello 96RAF

I defer to more knowledgeable and experienced modelers.

I have struck through my text, so that folks can still see it, but can be warned of an issue.

Bee

[Buz]

Hi

I have a Relco (and it still works) unit in my control system, my Layout is DC (analogue).

Which is I think the same thing as the original poster is talking about.

It has not fried the modern DCC READY (analogue) locomotives that I use on my layout.

My information is that if a DCC FITTED locomotive is used it will blow the Relco unit.

regardless of if it is the chip or the Relco unit that blows it is not good and a PITA to do the repair and replacement work needed after the incident.

Not to mention both could be expensive to replace and there could also be unintended collateral damage done as well.

Best to make sure the mistake doesn't happen to begin with

regards John

[bill7437]

Will not blow the Relco unit but likely to affect the chip in the loco. Does not affect obviously more ancient locos not fitted with chips.