HM7000 System

[Fishmanoz]

Steve, it’s pretty clear that the adaptor cable has no electronics, it is just a cable with one end to plug into the 15v and the other end into a power track or power clip. You could do your connections any way you like and avoid this product altogether.

Electronically, the front end of the decoder will be a bridge rectifier producing DC to power the decoder, usually from the DCC track voltage. If instead of DCC you supply DC, that will just go straight through the bridge and result in the same DC powering the chip.

[Deem]

Rob have you used Hornby App which compatible with HM7000, I try to find on Google store and couldn't find it, I just wanted see the interface before I heavily invest in HM7000.

Regards

[DarkRedCape]

The app is not publicly released yet.

[96RAF]

There isn’t much to invest in, as the App is free, the sound decoders are cheap in comparison to full fat decoders and the sound profile downloads are free. The only other investment is if you want to control legacy decoders via your existing Elite or Select is the HM7040 dongle.

If you look on the product page where it shows links to the Apple and Android stores the text says ‘Coming soon’.

My App access is a special single user non transferable direct link to the developers server.

It is not the sort of thing you can play with as the initial actions are to scan for and save, then link to HM7K devices. Without those devices you can’t see much apart from those screens seen on various social media links.

I can post screenshots if you want to see the set up for control of my locos as of today’s hot fix revision.

[96RAF]

I will answer your questions below then add in answers to other folks questions at the end.

What is the reliable range of the control from loco/decoder to smartphone?

Standard bluetooth range of 10m but it has been tested to 45m, however by use of Mesh technology any additional static or mobile node will extend that range to the same distance between nodes. Think of each decoder or node as a relay beacon.

If the loco/decoder goes out of range, does it just keep going and does it automatically reconnect and come back under control when it comes back into range?

The decoder CVs control how the loco behaves upon signal loss, but the Mesh nodes generally keep the thing under control. If it derails or loses track power over points say, when it gets re-railed and local track power is restored the Mesh auto-connects that decoder. If the whole track powers down and up again the decoders reboot and the Mesh gets them talking to each other and the App.

What protocol is used over the bluetooth? Is it straight bog standard DCC so that other manufacturesr/hobbists can provide their own handsets, or some proprietary format? A propriatary format would make sence to get over the 'broadcast only' nature of DCC control, thus quickly draining handset battery life. Handests with real tactile control knobs could be needed in the future (they can be used while concentrating on the train and not having to look at a screen and concentrate on that) and also to get over the problem of not being able to read a smartphone/tablet screen in bright (sun)light. Would Hornby provide a handset in the future that could be used instead of a smartphone/tablet?

No idea, but see later answers. The only other bluetooth system is Soundtrax Blunami which doesn’t pick up Hornby kit, nor does Hornby kit pick up Blunami, so I have no idea where such a handset or decoders would come from.

Will standalone accessory decoders with bluetooth be available for controlling points/lights/uncouplers etc?

Yes a single unit acc decoder is planned along with possible trackside accessories such as an ambient speaker; as is use of the existing R8247 module, but in the meantime you can use an HM6010 to control accessories and also use HM6000 module as a static node or to provide simple track power. There will also be an RLM.

Thanking you in advance for answers/comments on my questions. I'm sure there are other things I will want to ask in the future. It seems like a good system good on Hornby for bringing this out.

Answers to other questions.

1. The ‘special’ power cable is a 6.3mmx3mm socket on one end to accept a Select, HM6K or Elite PSU jack with a standard two prong power track/power clip plug on the other end. No fancy electronics involved just wires. It is intended for use by putting a PSU output direct to the rails for a setup that is not DCC powered.
2. TXS is the new TTS.
3. The data that the App sends over the air is Hornby proprietary but the overarching Mesh tech is standard BLE. The dongle passes that data to the controller over Xpressnet using that protocol to translate it into DCC speak over the rails.
4. You first need to load the sound profile onto the decoder using the App, then you can switch CV12 to DCC mode for control by any NMRA compliant DCC controller. To use the dongle to control legacy decoders from the App it must plug into a controller that uses Xpressnet, at present Hornby or Z21 but maybe others - suck it and see applies. It is not expected that other make wireless adapters will work with this system.
5. Programming track - the App reads and writes to 7000 decoders over the air on the main. If you want to program legacy decoders you do it on a programming track using your controller same as now. There is no App support to program legacy decoders over the air through the dongle, that is just not possible without Railcom which these decoders do not support.

 

 

 

 

[Bexhill Donkey]

The HM7000 is a 21-pin Sound DCC decoder with Bluetooth. As with any DCC decoder, it has an analogue mode and you can run a loco chipped with it using a DC controller, such as HM2000 or an old H&M Clipper! However, no sound functions would be available under DC, as would be the case with any TTS loco. So there's no point buying it if you have not got a DCC command station.

[Bexhill Donkey]

The HM7000 is a 21-pin Sound DCC decoder with Bluetooth. As with any DCC decoder, it has an analogue mode and you can run a loco chipped with it using a DC controller, such as HM2000 or an old H&M Clipper! However, no sound functions would be available under DC, as would be the case with any TTS loco. So there's no point buying it if you have not got a DCC command station.

[SteveM6]

The HM7000 is a 21-pin Sound DCC decoder with Bluetooth. As with any DCC decoder, it has an analogue mode and you can run a loco chipped with it using a DC controller, such as HM2000 or an old H&M Clipper! However, no sound functions would be available under DC, as would be the case with any TTS loco. So there's no point buying it if you have not got a DCC command station.

 

 

That’s incorrect. The TXS decoders will be available as 21 pin, 8 pin with a wiring harness and as Next18.

Control in DCC mode will need a DCC controller, however the HM7000 app is a controller on its own right using Bluetooth to talk directly to the decoder. The only power supply needed to the track is either the 15v power supply or a standard 12v dc controller turned up to max.

 

 

Potentially the only kit you need to purchase to get running is the decoder itself as the app is free, as are the downloadable sound files.

[SeanTT]

Yes but there is no sound if using DC so just the power and the adapter, as confirmed here:

so to use sound you need a DCC Controller, DCC power clip/track and more expensive decoders..

Im just getting started with TT:120 and was excited earlier today but now a little sad as would need to pay more for sound and extra work for DCC. Elite controllers are £200 + then track etc so not a cheap option for some

[Fishmanoz]

With respect Bexhill, you could avoid the misinformation by reading the 2023 announcement content.

Further to Steve above and for a start - the DCC controller you have to “buy” is a free App, no hardware needed.

[Deem]

There isn’t much to invest in, as the App is free, the sound decoders are cheap in comparison to full fat decoders and the sound profile downloads are free. The only other investment is if you want to control legacy decoders via your existing Elite or Select is the HM7040 dongle.

I have roughly 12 or 15 TTS decoders, if I really want to enjoy full potentials ideally I would like to change all decoders which will take the price quite high. I may get some money back by selling my TTS decoders but in the mean time I will have to invest. Obviously its my choice and nobody is forcing me to do it this particular way.

I can post screenshots if you want to see the set up for control of my locos as of today’s hot fix revision.

If its not too inconvenience to you I would appreciate if you could share the screen shots of the app.

Another question though, I know BLE have improve since it was released years ago, when mostly it was used in phones. How smoothly and quickly pairing happens? Especially between decoders and phone with app.

IOS is very different to Android and some manufacturers of phones (in my experience) have better quality hardware to others. Which makes the whole Bluetooth experience either pleasant or nightmare.

 

 

[Deem]

Sorry Rob if we are asking so many questions here but as you have tried this system, ideally you are the best person to answer these questions. I hope we don't make your life difficult.

Regards

[Fishmanoz]

And again for Sean - you do not need to buy any DCC controller. Control is via the free App downloaded to your phone or tablet.

If you purchase via a TT:120 set digital version, the additional cost is £55 less 15% membership discount for sound, or you can buy non-sound separately for around £32 less discount (the only option for 08s).

And they will fit to any and all Hornby DCC Ready locos, past, current and future, OO or TT:120.

In fact, they’ll also be an option for non-DCC Ready older locos with their 1 Amp capability.

Will be hard for you to blow up ColinB, but let’s see if you can find a way (with acknowledgement of Rob’s original idea on this, Colin being our resident decoder blower-upper).

[james_nelmes]

What’s the power output in amps of the decoders? This is for retro-fitting to older models.

[Fishmanoz]

As I said above - 1 Amp.

[james_nelmes]

Apologies Fishmanoz - is that peak or continuous?

[riverlagan]

Can the stay alive be fitted to and function on an analogue dc loco on a dc layout without any HM7000 chip or control, it looks like it would be easy to cut off the plug in and splice the stay alive into the loco wiring?

[Fishmanoz]

Riverlagen, almost certainly not. Starting from scratch:

• attach stay alive and turn up controller - train will move off and stay alive will charge to the voltage setting
• turn down controller - stay alive will continue to operate the loco for 7 seconds before it takes any notice of the controller
• reverse the controller direction and turn it up - voltage is now opposite to the stay alive polarity and chances are it will now leak highly corrosive contents of its capacitors all over the internals of your loco and onto your track

[Fishmanoz]

For more definitive info on the system, see https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/news/video-hammant-and-morgan-hm7000-what-is-it?fbclid=IwAR1hDU4JLhR0_53QBn64ZO_-De0C-FYp7s75IPIckWeKHxAQ7CGUJyAr8pU

This video is publicly available on the World of Railways site so I’m not divulging confidences by giving all the link. However, there are no links to it that I can see from the Hornby info, I knew where to look.

[riverlagan]

Forgot to mention in the preceding post that I currently use HM6000 controllers on the layout with some use of older analogues on separately isolated sections, the 6000’s have proved to be a revelation in controllability and ‘remote control running’ which would be enhanced by stay alive, this would work well for now but the prospect of trying HM7000 and its extra facilities is certainly in prospect as a next stage.

[SeanTT]

I emailed SK and had this response as to whether sound would work over DC:

"Much depends on the size of the transformer ie amperage. 1amp maybe OK with sound but we cannot guarantee that hence focussing on non-sound. There is a chance it would be OK but it can be marginal."

so it cannot be guaranteed.. is it a risk worth taking?

I would like to see it in action ideally..

[Rallymatt]

Just to pick the brains of some of the clearly well briefed contributors (thank you 😁)

If I fitted my TT 120 A4 with the Bluetooth sound decoder, paired it with the HM 7000 app, loaded all the CVS and sound files for an A4 from the app and then decided to run my layout on my Dynamis DCC unit,

Would the decoder retain all the settings loaded by the HM7000 app and would the sound files play through the functions on the traditional DCC controller?

 

[SteveM6]

Yes. You will have to change the decoder from BLE (Bluetooth) mode to DCC mode to make it work - CV12, I believe. I intend to do much the same with my layout which currently utilizes a GM Prodigy.

[5Dublo2]

Not obviously mentioned, but hiding among the HM7000 releases and almost certainly of use to some modellers is a Reverse Loop module (R7327)

[96RAF]

As with any decoder the configuration is held in the decoder memory. The controller merely sends DCC commands which the decoder actions according to its settings, e.g. accel/decell rates, volume, motor settings, function variations like lighting effects and brightness, etc.

The only quirk is some controllers have F2 set as momentary for use by horns, i.e. the horn plays all the while the controller button is held on. The TXS horns/whistles on F2 and F3 are play through, i.e. the controller button needs to be selected on and they play once, then selected off to reset ready for next time.

To summarise, the new decoders in DCC mode are no different to any other decoder.