ttmike Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I’m thinking of getting 1 of the new Hornby train sets with a view to expanding it into a larger layout, probably an L shape 8ft x 2ft 6ins, for the long leg and 6ft by 2ft 6 for the shorter leg. I see that the sets come with dc control; what dcc controller would I need to run trains successfully on a dcc system? I don’t want to go down the HM7000 route owing to expense. I’m aware that n gauge and 00 gauge require different voltages. Are there any controllers suitable for dcc tt120? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 @ttmike, welcome to the Forum.Any DCC controller that meets the standard specification is suitable for TT:120. At present I have a 00 layout controlled by the Hornby Elite which I intend to use for TT:120. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Michael, any controller you already have can be used. Forget about any supposed voltage differences with either OO or N. But HM7000 expensive? I don’t think so. Controller free via the App and well-priced decoders for their capability, sound or non-sound. And in case you think I may be biased, I have no connections to Hornby, just a user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Henny Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I don’t want to go down the HM7000 route owing to expense. I don't understand this view point. What is it about the HM7000 system that you think is expensive. The HM7000 controller is a piece of FREE software that is installed on a compatible Smart Phone / Tablet. Granted, if you don't currently own a suitable Phone/Tablet then purchasing one is an expense to be factored in to the costs.The HM7000 series decoders are very reasonably priced for what they are, but any DCC solution needs decoders anyway. Granted the HM7000 APP software locks you in to using the HM7000 series decoders if you have no other DCC controller, but the price differential between Hornby HM7000 series "Bluetooth" decoders and non Bluetooth decoders is not that great and Hornby's Bluetooth Sound decoders are nearly half the price of other market leading sound decoder brands.If you have a compatible Phone/Tablet device, playing the 'expense' card just does not stack up. HM7000 is by far the cheapest way into DCC control of locos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpntpntp Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I don't know where this idea of N and OO being different voltage comes from? Both have always been nominal 12V DC systems (as is TT) and DCC systems for them run at around 15V output to the track. Some people may choose to turn the DCC voltage down a little for N but there there is no need as you can adjust the speed characteristics of the locos in the DCC decoder itself. It is desirable to tune/limit the maximum current of a DCC system (if your system allows) to suit the smaller motors of N.The DC loco will need a DCC decoder to be fitted if you want to run it under DCC.With traditional DCC you then need some sort of command station with a throttle/controller, these can range from cheap and basic to fully featured and expensive. At the cheap end of the market the DCC systems don't let you read and program any DCC decoder features other than setting an address, they are limited in the number of locos they can address, and may not support control of accessories (points etc.) so they can be a false economy other than to get you started.As the guys have posted above the new HM7000 system seems to be a relatively inexpensive approach compared to traditional DCC, doing away with the central DCC command station hardware and using a Bluetooth capable decoder and a free app on your phone/tablet device talking directly to the decoder.I run mostly DC but I do have a traditional DCC system for certain scales (I use NCE hardware eg. a PowerCab) and I don't own a smartphone or tablet (not keen on those type of devices) but I can see the attraction of the HM7000 system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 The HM7000 decoders are essentially a standard DCC decoder with a bluetooth capability bolted on that allows them to also work direct from the app as long as the track is powered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttmike Posted January 28, 2023 Author Share Posted January 28, 2023 Thanks everyone for the advice. Clearly I misunderstand the 7000 system and it’s obviously the best way to go. So I’ve pre- ordered a set which includes dcc fitted loco which should arrive in summer, and I’ll find out then what decoder is fitted and what type of controller is supplied. Meanwhile I’ll finish of my 00 layou scenery and put it up for sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 You don’t need to wait for delivery to know those details. The loco is fitted with an HM7000-N18TXS decoder and speaker. The controller supplied is the very basic Hornby DC type plus its PSU and an adaptor cable. You put the controller in your bottom drawer (it’s too light to use as a doorstop and has no other use), plug into the wall the PSU that comes with it, then plug it into the adaptor cable. The other end of the cable plugs into your power track. That PSU can supply about 0.5 Amps, enough for your set loco and possibly another. Download the App to your phone/tablet, put the track together and turn on the PSU at the wall, follow the instructions on how to call up the loco in your App and you are pretty much set to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 If the set is DCC-fitted then it won’t have any physical controller, just a PSU and an adapter cable. The controller is the app which as stated will be a free download when released.If the set is not Digital then it will have a basic analogue controller but no decoder or adapter cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttmike Posted January 28, 2023 Author Share Posted January 28, 2023 Again thanks , but I intend to build a layout with several locos running at once. So 0.5 amps is not going to be enough is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 So you will need to buy a 4 Amp PSU, either the Hornby or the Toshiba laptop PSU with the compatible plug or any other 4 Amp up to say 20V if you are hard wiring to track/track bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Perhaps @96RAF can confirm this - but I believe Hornby have indicated that the Digital Fitted sets will include the equivalent to R7337 (4amp power supply & adaptor cable). Otherwise there would be a significant discrepancy in the price considering that they don’t contain a controller.If this is the case then @ttmike won’t need to purchase an additional power supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Certain you have that wrong LT. all you’ll get is the basic controller PSU plus the cable. That's still excellent value for the price. For an extra £55 over the DC set, you get the HM7000-N18TXS decoder which is £70 standalone and the adaptor cable thrown in too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 @Fishy don’t forget that the price of the DC set already includes both the basic controller (R7229) & PSU (P9000) - which if you compare Hornby’s prices - are equivalent to R7337 (includes adaptor cable).Therefore if the Digital Fitted sets only include basic PSU - then you are actually paying closer to £80 more for the HM7k decoder & adaptor cable!I realise that comparing prices for individual items with train set prices isn’t particularly accurate - however I do believe that R7229 adds more to the cost of a train set than most perceive its value to be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 Remember when they priced the digital sets, they thought they were going to have the controller as is to power the track. Then they found out the PWM from the controller was causing sound problems so they reverted to the same PSU plus adaptor cable.Anyone buying a digital set first up won’t care about no DC controller, they just see £55 for digital sound and speaker. And that’s the same price differential as for digital sound v DC locos as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttmike Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 So, it seems my best bet is to buy the dc set and separate hm7000 decoder and fit it myself. That means I’ll get a 12v supply for lighting, etc. seems logical as I still need a 12vdcc supply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttmike Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 So I use a 12v dc psi, plugged into the adapter cable which gives me dcc?sorry to go on, but the dcc concept is new to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 Buying a DC set plus decoder gets you no additional kit of use. In fact, you still need to buy the adaptor cable. The PSU that comes in the DC you still need as the track supply for DCC and has little power left over for lighting. The DC route is more expensive and more work. The only advantage is the set will be available sooner as no waiting for decoder delivery. The 12V PSU plugged into the adaptor cable is the track power required for your DCC setup, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttmike Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 Therefore, buy dc train set + 12v 4amp dc psu +v2000 decoder to power track using adaptor in dc set. Several trains run, and I have the dc12v 1amp psu that comes in the set to power lighting. Is this finally workable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 Therefore, buy dc train set + 12v 4amp dc psu +v2000 decoder to power track using adaptor in dc set. Several trains run, and I have the dc12v 1amp psu that comes in the set to power lighting. Is this finally workable? There is no adapter cable in the DC set, it’s is in the DCC set or you have to buy it either separately HM7020 R7324 or as part of the R7337 PSU and adapter cable bundle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpntpntp Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 Is there anything special about the HM7020 adapter cable for the DCC system? Isn't it just a socket for the output of the PSU and a track connector plug? It's only £7.95, just add one to the pre-order.Alternatively just cut the track power lead of the DC set and fit a suitable inline socket. There are loads of such sockets on ebay, AliExpress etc. which come complete with screw terminals to connect the wires. My son bought a bag full of plugs and sockets a little while ago (they fit his guitar effect pedals etc.), and I actually have a pair with quick connect push down terminals for testing stuff.From this listing you'd want the DC 5.5*2.1 female type Ahttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275282228411https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/txoAAOSwystiYLY~/s-l1600.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 @ntp3The 15vDCC P9100 and P9300 PSUs have a 6.3mm jack plug/socket. Your suggested 5.5mm items are suited to 12vDC or the P9000 PSU.I found jack plugs aplenty but no in-line sockets, only a panel mount one from USA with a ridiculous one off single order charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpntpntp Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 @96RAF fair enough, not having the items to hand I don't know the specs. No doubt 6.3mm inline sockets are also available. There are certainly 6.3 > 5.5 adapters but by the time you've messed around findng and buying might as well just get the proper cable when it becomes available :) I'd probably just cut both ends and use a choc-block but that's not the proper thing to do ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Henny Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 No doubt 6.3mm inline sockets are also available. If you find any 6.3mm inline cable sockets at a reasonable price (delivered) and sold in UK / Europe then post a link to them as I for one would buy some stock. I've looked on and off for months in the past but then gave up trying in more recent times as I got absolutely nowhere with my searches, except for USA via a seller with a no shipping to UK policy.6.3mm / 3mm DC plugs are no problem as readily available, but matching 6.3mm sockets is another matter entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge1965 Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 Like this? Cliff DC-10A Low power connector Socket, horizontal mount 6.3 mm 2.1 mm 1 pc(s) | Conrad.comThis one is spec to 1Amp? 4840.2200 Schurter, DC Power Connector, 2-pole, 6.3mm | Farnell UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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