Why does TT:120 cause such hatred from other Railway modellers?

[Rallymatt]

Anyone who has looked beyond the Hornby TT:120 forum will have undoubtedly seen some appalling views being expressed by individuals claiming to be Railway Modellers (usually OO) Many of these nasty and bullying comments are being propagated by ‘established’ names in the hobby based on very poor knowledge and frequently ‘made up claims’

These comments are very negative towards Hornby, but in particular TT:120 and so by association any modeller that has chosen this scale. The bloke who does Little Blytham and Charlie Bishop are two of the ‘YouTube Wannabes’ leading their band of trolls on this campaign against TT:120. I think they represent the worst of the hobby.

Encouraging people to discover and engage in this fantastic hobby is surely a basic of any person wanting to be a ‘big fish’

I was appalled by the views aired by CB who once worked with Peco, I called him out on his own YT account and I also contacted Peco as he was a public face of their company. To be insulted for my TT:120 choice after spending a substantial sum with that company really is too much. To Peco’s credit their sales manager contacted me immediately and was similarly unimpressed by the views aired and has confirmed CB has no further involvement with Peco and that Peco are fully committed to developing the TT:120 scale and see its potential to grow significantly.

So, if you are feeling you are being belittled or bullied because you want to model in TT:120 and not OO or N, don’t accept it. Call them out for what they are.

Anyone, any scale, any way you want.

[Dave the Busker]

Hear hear! The existence of TT:120 isn't going to diminish anyone else's layout in other scales, but it's likely to bring in lots of new people (like myself) to the hobby. Surely that's to be encouraged? I know it's very early days for the scale, and there's some teething problems, but it's only going to add to the world of model railways as it develops.

[Old Kent Biker]

To be fair, quite a lot of experienced OO modellers are embracing TT as an addition to their existing hobby, but yes, it is a crying shame that there is a lot of vitriol aimed at TT120 just because it dares to be new and different. (including from TT 3mm modellers). My response to them would perhaps be "at least my wheels are the correct distance apart!" :)

[Railbob]

Rallymatt,

Strangely enough I was reading your “discussion “ with someone on YouTube today and he sounds an absolute fool with his comments. I noticed that he had pulled quite a few of his comments as he had been called out on them by your good self 👍👍. I must admit I cannot understand the vitriol that TT120 has created especially among the “00” community, it’s as if they feel that they are no longer the top dogs in the hobby and their position is in danger. I am one of the people that Hornby were aiming at, someone who wants a layout but has no space for “00” and TT120 suits me perfectly.

[Chris98]

I completely agree. Hornby's introduction of tt120 has got me into this hobby and without them I never would have. Its not just Hornby that benefit as I have already paid for my baseboards to be made and other companies will benefit from other products I will buy. There seems to be a real stigma and slating around direct sales. These are the times we live in, I buy most things off the internet! thats the society of today.

I am very happy with all the Hornby tt stuff I have bought so far.

[See See Rider]

It’s only ignorance and they feel threatened - I’m pretty sure it would only be the sort of person who only does OO gauge and sees every other scale as exotic or (in their mind) pointless. Don’t give them any attention. They are small time people. The more scales the merrier. I’ve never understood the OO gauge thing anyway. Each to their own - you’d think a common passion for trains would be enough to get on with each other. Crazy.

[LTSR_NSE]

Completely agree.

I imagine most of the hatred comes from trolls who love to object to and about every subject and is therefore completely irrelevant. However there are two sources of potential discomfort for established modellers (who don’t welcome change):

• Those who remember Triang TT being abandoned & imagine history will repeat.

• Those who are aware that OO became dominant at O’s expense.

Neither of these are valid ‘reasons’ for hatred towards anyone obviously, but if they cause people discomfort regarding their hobby (or YouTube income) that would explain their opinion.

Hopefully most enthusiasts will simply see (UK) TT:120 as just another available option to further expand this wonderful hobby!

(Those that can’t are simply to be pitied, ignored, or challenged as you choose.)

[ellocoloco]

Your right, RM, the scale has been very divisive, however, there were some pretty divisive comments on enough forums before Hornby announced TT120. Social Media gives us all the opportunity to be experts but there are those of us who post pictures of what we do and those who tell us what should be done. I have migrated to the edge of the hobby having interests in British HO - because I can't stand the inaccuracy of OO - and Spanish HO - where I find myself more forgiving with regards to the axles once again being too short!

I am a great fan of Charlie and Chadwick and have made my comments when I have felt them appropriate. We can all have an opinion and we all know what they are like.

[TT-Man]

It's just a hobby for fun and relaxation. Anyone who indulges in it should do it in their own way that gives them the maximum enjoyment. Who cares what anyone else thinks?

As in all areas of life, there is sadly a contingent that wants to criticise anyone who chooses to do things differently from them.

I see unfortunately, on some Facebook pages and forums that there are some TT:120 supporters who are being equal vile to anyone who is not enthusiastic enough about TT. So this is a universal failing of the human character.

[Fredoxford-344906]

Are you talking about the suggestion that Peco tt points are better than hornby? Which I highlighted should be, at Double the price!

[Rallymatt]

🤣 ha ha no Fred, there is room for both and now I have a Hornby point I think they represent excellent value.

The issue is the ‘dark side’ in the hobby is a genuine feeling of animosity towards TT:120 and it’s modellers by a section of the established modelling community, and there could be some return unpleasantness that TT-Man has seen…. Ohhh dear me, it’s fun playing with trains and that’s all it is. Whatever scale, however you do it it’s all good

[ntpntpntp]

I've not read/watched any of these YT "influencer" types who just want to feel important and spout some quite frankly daft opinions, and I don't bother with certain forums which I know can develop animosity in all sorts of discussions between self-styled experts. I can't be bothered with all that, I stay with forums which have a friendly atmosphere grinning

I've seen concerns raised that the introduction of TT:120 will be at the expense of development and production timescales for 00 (especially if other firms jump on board) so people won't get that long-awaited model that's so important to them.

I've seen people expecting it to be a flash-in-the-pan that will die out like the old range did, and others who just don't see it as any real advantage or alternative over N.

Personally I'm someone who loves to buy and play with model railways in many different scales and I welcome it as a chance/excuse to try a different project grinning It does have a way to go to build up a wider range of items beyond the initial big and famous loco types etc. but that will come and I'm happy to bide my time. What I've had in my hands so far seems pretty good.

[Peachy]

I agree with pretty much all that’s already been said on this thread.

I’m certainly hoping this scale is here to stay.

TT1:120 is wholly and specifically the one reason for me coming back to the hobby now as a 50 something.

And now having received my “Scotsman” set (to have something to play with) I eagerly await the delivery of the sound fitted 4 locos, 1 set & 9 rolling stock that I’ve preordered later this year!

oh and of course the HM7000.

As for YouTube? I’ve cancelled subscriptions with the haters and found others to replace them for my viewing fixes such as Sam & Simons shed. Basic but fun.

As for the future? I’m praying for a “Cock O’ the North” (LNER livery of course)

oh & PS obviously Hornby needs to get on top of (& I’m sure they are) some of the minor quality control issues, but all of the minor faults that have been so highlighted on social media I’ve experienced but also fixed with very little effort.

I guess some people just like a moan.

[OldSeaDog 1707821252]

Errrr...... I was at FBRM on Sunday and can confirm that negative comments about Hornby and TT120 aren't confined to the internet.

Talking to the traders, quite a few seem miffed that they're excluded from the action and don't want anything to do with it. One in particular was extremely vitriolic. Talking to the punters, though, there was a great deal of curiosity as virtually nobody had seen this new kit in the flesh. One trader, West Hill Wagon Works, did have the contents of a Scotsman set which they were using to display some new products and they have committed to developing more. I'd seriously have a look at their website; their CAD designed, resin printed bits and bobs are truly wonderful, if a bit modern for what I need.

I don't care about this gauge war thing that seems to be going on. I've worked in every scale from N to G over the last 63 years and as far as I'm concerned, it's about the modelling, not how wide the track is.

[Dave the Busker]

I can understand retailers being put out that they've been totally bypassed. I'd rather be able to pick things up from a local shop than have to order everything online and have to wait for delivery. The vitriolic hatred though, feels a bit much. If TT120 products from other manufacturers are in shops I'll happily buy them and support them.

[HST Mainline]

I think it boils down to following the unwritten rule of some British railway modellers: "You HAVE to hate Hornby and everything they do".

It seems like an automatic switch that goes on every time Hornby announces something.

Honestly, I don't listen to these people. They are not the ones calling the shots. They may have a Youtube channel, and fine with that, some of them give good advise, some have become a bit full of themselves.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Funnily enough there seems to be more adverse comment from OO modellers than from N gaugers. A lot of it seems to stem from the perception that Hornby are moving development resources away from OO towards TT. This is often coupled with a comment that "the OO market isn't saturated". This really means "Hornby haven't made the model I want, and now there's less chance of them making it".

It's not surprising that traders who can't sell it are hostile — any money spent on TT:120 is money they aren't getting, after all, so it's in their interest to discourage people from getting involved with the scale.

The QC issues that CB picked up have been pointed out by others, though he was hostile to Hornby’s chosen method of distribution. As for "the bloke who does Little Bytham" (I assume you mean Tony Wright) he doesn't have a YouTube channel AFAIK although a couple of videos featuring his layout have appeared on the World of Railways Channel — I haven't seen the most recent one. He's certainly not an "influencer" as far as I can see.

[TT-Man]

"It's not surprising that traders who can't sell it are hostile — any money spent on TT:120 is money they aren't getting, after all, so it's in their interest to discourage people from getting involved with the scale."

I think the perception that retailers aren't benefiting from Hornby TT:120 is incorrect. A lot of controllers, DCC chips, scenery, kits, track etc. have been sold on the back of it. I for one have spent over £1,000 with retailers on TT related purchases.

[OldSeaDog 1707821252]

@TT-Man You're absolutely right with this, although I did have a live-and-in-person discussion with a trader who wasn't having it at all. Really seemed to hate Hornby. Needs to get a life, I think, but you never know what people's personal circumstances are.

[OldSeaDog 1707821252]

That sounded really patronising. I need to go and do some track ballasting instead of lounging around reading model railway forums.

[TT-Man]

"I did have a live-and-in-person discussion with a trader who wasn't having it at all. Really seemed to hate Hornby."

I am certain that Hornby bring more people into the hobby than any other manufacturer in the UK. Everyone knows the brand. What is the first thing a new entrant does? He/she buys or gets gifted a train set. Who makes the most train sets in the UK - Hornby. I doubt that many people started with Dapol, Bachmann, Heljan, Accurascale etc. (excellent though their products may be). Any retailer who can't see that is a rather short sighted businessman.

[TheDonald]

I've been watching Charlie's videos since the first lockdown and he's a good guy. I saw his TT:120 one and didn't think there was anything overly negative in it - he seemed positive about the quality of the models to me and cut some slack as "it's a train set".

He was right to point out that the curves in the set should make a circle when joined together and I hope this is something Hornby are aware of and have rectified before my DCC Easterner turns up in the summer. Up until that point I had been wondering why every video I'd seen of people's trains running seemed to depress the track as they went around the circuit.

The other issues he raised were ones that multiple people are experiencing - indeed there are lots of posts on this very forum about the pesky insulation tape and the noise the coaches make.

I think the main reason for a lot of people's ire is that Hornby, for obvious reasons, have fallen behind on their release schedule and, to those who haven't followed TT:120 closely, it looks as though the reason for massive delays with OO models has been Hornby prioritising the release of TT:120. Of course, these poeple are either unaware (or choose to ignore) that Hornby have taken on extra staff and increased production capacity in order to deal with the extra work necessary.

[TT-Man]

I agree that Charlie is a good guy. He has produced a lot of entertaining and informative content over many years and I enjoy watching his stuff.

I was a bit surprised that he covered TT as he is very much a OO man. He certainly doesn't need to up his views and subscribers as his channel is very well established.

I think some of the negative reaction to his and other non fan boy coverage shows a bit too much sensitivity on the part of some of us TT supporters.

[Paulchik]

I have to agree that I didn’t think Charlie’s review was that explosive that it requires someone to contact Peco and try and destroy his reputation, that’s pretty poor form in my view.

And let’s remember I don’t think the TT fan boys are doing Hornby any favours here....I’ve read on this topic people waiting to receive their set ready to strip down to repair the tape under bogey issue, the rubbing coach frame etc etc... but Think about those New Modellers you say you want to encourage into TT ....these new people probably won’t have the modelling expertise to put right issues, Poor Johnny gets his new train set only for Dad have to say sorry son it’s going to have to go back....

Pointing out the issues now is essential for Hornby because TT will only be a success if it embodies that “Working straight out of the Box” to the New Modellers we ALL want coming into the Hobby.

[Rallymatt]

Peco have seen the video in question and have distanced themselves from the views expressed and confirmed their absolute support of TT120 scale.

I will leave it there.