Running Fictitious Stock

[M. Matthews]

What are people’s thoughts about running fictional stock? I’ve had some mk2’s painted up in a Colas livery which I think look fairly passable despite not actually existing.

I also had the idea of recreating the INTERCITY landcruise charter which had mk3 sleeper coaches and mk1 first class open coaches with white roofs. I’ve since decided to a full mk3 rake with white roofs instead as I find it more aesthetically pleasing.

How about the Jubilee HST or white Olympic Class 395? I don’t own these but just as examples of fictional liveries that hornby have released.

I understand rule 1, but I'm wondering what is YOUR opinion on this? Would you be offended by these turning up on exhibition layouts?

Personally, I quite like having some modified stock that makes people question its existence and whether they’ve seen it before or not. It’s something that only I have, something that’s different from the norm.

Although I did once see an a4 that was given a pendolino livery which was a bit far out for me. I’ve seen an a3 in BR blue that looked pretty cool though.

[Tony57]

Hi

With the turn over in different companies and liveries since privatisation I would not know what is fictitious or real.

As the coaches match the locomotive, it looks a nice looking train, its eye catching.

[ellocoloco]

My opinion is........... these coaches look great and are completely plausible. Hornby do an EWS business train, so why not a Colas one. I am wondering why the door on the second coach hasn't been painted though! sunglasses

The platform and the layout in general also look great.

There is a long history of fictional liveries in the model railway world. Some are fairly obvious repaints into different liveries, some are models that are close enough to the prototype. Some modellers think its a disgrace, many are happy that they can have something that looks the part. Most observers won't know what's accurate.

There is also a trend amongst US modellers to 'imagineer' entire systems, creating their own corporate identity and livery and painting whatever locos and rolling stock they wish to match. I'm thinking Alleghany Midland RR here and there are plenty of others.

I'm looking forward to your GBRf breakdown crane!

[96RAF]

There was a TV series where a coach at the MNR was ‘skinned’ with a fictitious livery for filming. I had a photo of it just in case I ever needed it, but as usual I binned it before the need arose (now).

[Rana Temporia]

nothing wrong with fictitious liveries. The manufacturers have been doing them for years and then you have a lot of the early Triang locos which may have been loosely based on a prototype but which were built to use existing chassis or to appeal to customers in different parts of the world. The coaches look great by the way.

[RDS]

It's your layout - run whatever you want.

[ellocoloco]

As RT states, manufacturers have been doing them for years and I reckon they fall into two categories. First are those like the Jubilee HST and Coronation 66. Your coaches fall into this category. An accurate model in a fictitious livery.

There are then models that are close enough to a prototype and get repainted and sold. I have plenty of these, some of which I was aware of the inaccuracies before I bought them, others I didn't and felt a little 'cheated' afterwards.

Hornby's Capt Tom is one of these. I was fully aware it should have had another door and other details but didn't really care when I ordered it. It looks the part, runs really well (with TTS) and I'm very happy with it.

The Electrotren Al Andalus express coaches are similar. I preordered these when they were announced, but it became clear when they were released they were Renfritos - a term used by Spanish railway modellers to describe a model that has received a Spanish paint job and looks the part from a distance, if you squint! The same year these were announced, Hornby announced the OO LMS Coronation coaches - excellent reproductions for the coaches and accurate to the prototypes. This made my disappointment with the Electrotren coaches and the lack of effort put into making an accurate model even more frustrating and I cancelled my preorder. I can understand why this was done. To produce accurate tooling of this unique train for the limited anticipated sales would have been uneconomical. I have since bought a set as they are lovely models and really do look the part, if you squint! And of course, all my Spanish models are running on the wrong gauge track and I accept that, as do pretty much all OO scale modellers.

In the context of all the compromises we make as modellers, your Colas coaches are pretty cool. I await your white roof Mk3s. thumbsup

[ModelerXYZ]

It depends what you are trying to acheive with your layout. If you want to make a scale model of a station/area then a fictitious train is a no no.

But if like me you just want something that looks good and runs well, I have absolutely no problem with fictious stock in a ficticious location. Run anything in whatever combination you want, and enjoy playing trains.

XYZ

[gilbo2]

It's your layout - run whatever you want.

 

 

+1, exactly, my approach too.

 

 

[Rana Temporia]

Highly collectible fictitious stock 1

[Rana Temporia]

Highly collectible fictitious stock 2. Also done in lots of other livieries by Hornby Dublo and you can also get transfers to produce other variants including L&Y.

[Rana Temporia]

Highly collectible fictitious stock 3, again available in other options

[atom3624]

My brother had the GWR one 45 years ago!

Wasn't a 'special price' and I could never understand why he didn't go for a BR one!

Al.

[ellocoloco]

The one Wrenn loco I have, an R1 tank, is pure junk. But the worst model I ever saw a review of - and don't know if it actually ever made it to market, was the Wrenn N scale 2-6-4T.

Back to fictitious liveries. The Rapido APT-E in Intercity blue and grey looks pretty cool.

[Richard RK3]

I'm tempted to purchase one of the forthcoming TT.120 Class 66s and have it repainted in BR Railfreight grey (either original or revised triple-grey with sub-sector markings), akin to what GBRF have done with some of theirs, painting them in retro-colour schemes.

[Rana Temporia]

Elloloco, I think the Wrenn N gauge 2-6-4 was made by Lima using a continental chassis with the body blown up to fit around it and it looked nothing like the prototype. It was made and still turns up occasionally second hand. The Lima N Deltic was almost as bad, possibly closer to TT than N in height. The coaches were about the same height as the Deltic nose bonnets at either end.

As for the GWR 4MT tank, I wanted one as a teenager to go with my pannier tank and Albert Hall not realising it wasn’t prototypical until I was told so.

I do have a boxed version of the black LMS N2 purely because I like the look of it and the blue Castle, which again I’d wanted as a teenager. Were castles ever turned out in Blue? I know the Kings were. I think the experimental pale green castle Wrenn produced is correct? Who cares? They all look good and will last forever. Good job my controllers can deliver enough power for them.

[Barry-350851]

I bought a Hornby Mk3 Hoverspeed coach. I don't believe that was ever real, but I wanted one anyway for the lolz.

I always wanted HST power cars in Scotrail blue stripe aswell, no idea why, perhaps just because the blue stripe looked a bit better than the Intercity red stripe.

There were also the original Hornby "Swallow" HST power cars, I don't know whether that counts as fictitious or just incorrect.

[Tony57]

Hi Rana,

There are a number of Wrenn loco's with livery issues, like Lyme Regis in Southern Malachite green only the body is a rebuilt type not an air smoothed body,

BR 2 6 4t 4MT in Southern lined Green, C R, GWR, LMS and LNER liveries.

N2 SR, GWR liveries. not sure about LMS Red and LNER Green

R1 in LMS Red, (or LMS black), NTG yellow. Esso Blue and Shell Silver

Did any of the Duchess wear BR Blue livery?, I have both City of Glasgow and Manchester in Blue livery as well as Windsor Castle in Blue.

[Rana Temporia]

Tony, there was a good article a while ago in one of the mags that covered the early blue used on express locos. From what I remember it was only used on the top express locos from each region which were all Pacific’s apart from the GWR KIngs. The LMS Princesses and Coronations were definitely painted blue but I am not sure whether all members received it.

Usual lining was white/black/white as used by the LNER but there were some variations and at least one ex SR loco had red lining, there were also a number of other shades of blue tried at the time. I would expect that all the blue locos would have BRITISH RAILWAYS or the early crest on their tenders, I think Wrenn produced one of the ex LMS locos in blue with the later BR crest which I would think is wrong. Someone will know this!

[threelink]

Your railway - your rules. What does it matter what anyone else thinks? If some rivet counter gets upset at an exhibition it's his/her problem, not yours. I have all manner of fictitious stock, most of it 19th century based and if someone tells me it didn't exist I ask them to prove it ( which they can't).

[Rana Temporia]

If someone says your loco didn’t exist look in this book and it probably did.

[M. Matthews]

Your railway - your rules. What does it matter what anyone else thinks? If some rivet counter gets upset at an exhibition it's his/her problem, not yours. I have all manner of fictitious stock, most of it 19th century based and if someone tells me it didn't exist I ask them to prove it ( which they can't).

 

 

I understand “your railway your rules” but it wasn’t really what I was getting at. It was more about the standard you come to expect at exhibitions especially when the layout is not necessarily owned by an individual but an organisation.

 

 

[Tony57]

Most exhibitions I have attended Club run layouts run the correct rolling stock with the correct Locomotive for that area of the country and period they are modelling even if it means making everything from scratch. The standards are High. Look at the detail of Pete Waterman's Making Tracks Layouts.

However there are some exhibitions where they celebrate the world of model railways, where you see Lego Railways, Garden Gauge Railways as well as layouts showing Trix Twin Track, Hornby Dublo, Triang trains with Minic Motorway, Marklin etc. all in the same place. All types and Gauges.

[threelink]

I think that if a layout purports to show a particular location at a particular period viewers would be justified in commenting if stock were run that was not appropriate to the location/period. Otherwise I would say that anything goes.

[Potterton]

@Tony57

THAT'S the sort of exhibition I like. One with a bit of everything which caters for all ages and all tastes from purists and rivet counters to those who just want to "play with trains." Speaking for myself, my layout is run mainly using Western Region blue era diesels or Great Western/Western Region steam to a timetable. Not together, I just "change" periods by changing the locos and rolling stock. There are certain other locos from different regions/companies I particularly like so the WR stuff comes off for a while and I "play" with the others. This involves other company's steamers and may mean a LNER liveried Mallard running alongside a SR West Country, or a Porterbrook liveried Class 47 running alongside a BR blue Class 86, but without any overhead catenary, (although steamers and the diesels are not run together). All totally fictitious. I don't have any fictitious liveried stock though. At least, I don't think I do!