Bartłomiej-375568 Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 Hello! I'm new to modeling and new here on the forum so I apologize if my questions are obvious. I have a problem because I'm trying to plan a layout in SCARM program (first photo) and just as the Hornby tracks are perfectly aligned with each other in terms of geometry, the tracks from PECO (with the exception of the ST-240 and ST-241), are not aligned as good as previous example. And here is my question - Is there any book, website, article, anything that helps with track planning similar to Hornby (2 last photos)? Thank you in advance for every comment :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moawkwrd Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 You’re mixing Peco setrack with streamline - that’s why it doesn’t align. ST = Setrack. SL = Streamline.Streamline points are designed to be used with flexible track cut to whatever lengths and curved as required to give a more realistic appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 Note that Hornby and PECO track self align to a different inter-track spacing so watch for rolling stock clashing on bends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry-350851 Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 The ST240 and ST241 are standard sectional track geometry. Peco's name for this is Setrack. All Hornby track is sectional.Sectional track has standard lengths of straight track e.g. R600/ST200 is 168mm long with others being multiples of this. (e.g. a double straight R601 is twice the length of an R600)Standard sectional track works on a 4 standard radii of track starting at 371mm radius for 1st radius curve and going up 67mm for each subsequent radius. So the tracks are always 67mm apart. A lot of modern rolling stock won't go around 1st radius so in practical terms 2nd radius is now the recommended minimum. Sectional track is also based on curves of 22.5degrees for a standard curve (11.25 degrees is a half curve, 45 degrees is a double). So the standard points R8072 and R8073 (Peco ST240&241) are the equivalent of a standard straight in length and a standard second radius curve for the diverging line.Peco Streamline doesn't have any sectional track that works with it, you make your own from flexi track. It is based on track centres of 51mm and divergence on the points of 12 degrees. The two are not easily combined! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rana Temporia Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 I think you can still get the free version of Anyrail software which has a good library of different manufacturers’ track and allows you to use up to 50 pieces including flexi track. 50 pieces won’t make a decent layout but it will help in the formation of parts of one and you will able to see if things are aligned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 Hi, finest way to plan layout, is to take some track, and just lay it, loosely. Then if you are happy, lay some more. Nothing to be gained by all this computer stuff. Model trains, are hands on. Many of us, prefer, trial and labour. You will enjoy it far more, Honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Henny Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 If you connect two SL points together to create a cross-over then the track spacing is set at 50mm. The Hornby standard is 67mm.If you built a layout with all 50mm spacing then the curves would really need to be greater than Hornby Radius 4 to prevent long wheelbase rolling stock overhangs from colliding.As long as you are using SL Code100 track then you can fit a Peco ST-202 between the two SL points. This will increase the track gap from 50mm to 67mm to allow tighter curves to be used. The negative aspect of doing that means that the length of baseboard space needed for the cross-over is increased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpntpntp Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 @Yelrow wrote:Hi, finest way to plan layout, is to take some track, and just lay it, loosely. .... Nothing to be gained by all this computer stuff. I agree. I'm not a fan of track planning software. Nothing beats laying out some track and getting a feel for what works as a plan within the confines of the space you have available. It's easier to visualise how many coaches or wagons will fit in sidings and loops, the clearances for platforms, tunnels etc. I'm not sure if similar exists for 00, but for my N gauge layouts I download and print off full size paper templates of the Peco pointwork and lay them out to work out a track plan. Once the plan is finalised I buy the trackwork needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 Another vote for the hands on approach, along with Yelrow and Nick (NTPx3) If you favour sectional/set track rather than forming your own curves/cutting track (as for flexi track); a selection of track pieces and the area available will be a great way to ‘understand’ what the geometry makes possible and how it looks. It’s much quicker and I think it leads to more interesting layouts as changes are done in a moment.Using Peco streamline is slightly different as it’s only the points/crossing geometry and you fill the gaps with track created from flexi and being mindful of the radii your stock and cope with as detailed above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 I'm not sure if similar exists for 00, but for my N gauge layouts I download and print off full size paper templates of the Peco pointwork and lay them out to work out a track plan. Once the plan is finalised I buy the trackwork needed. Yes, full size paper templates do exist for OO. I've found them handy for determining polarity of specific rails in complex points like double slips, by coloring individual rails in specific colors. Most informative (for me anyway).What I find interesting about the comment, in general, is that the process you describe is exactly that of track planning software. You take templates of the pointwork and work out a track plan. Specific radii, precise lengths and etc are laid into the baseboard you define. Then you buy the trackwork.The track planning software offers up precision not possible with pieces of paper, yet in the end, it is the same process.Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 I completely agree that choosing between using track planning software or physical options is a personal one. However I’ve found the software invaluable. If you don’t already possess track, it allows you to try all manner of designs/options before committing any money to a project. It also allows you to ‘see’ which radii & other constraints will fit within different baseboard sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartłomiej-375568 Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 You’re mixing Peco setrack with streamline - that’s why it doesn’t align. ST = Setrack. SL = Streamline.Streamline points are designed to be used with flexible track cut to whatever lengths and curved as required to give a more realistic appearance. Oh, okay. Now I understand. I was just looking for long, good quality code 100 points with unifrogs. I know Hornby has R8077/8079 in their offer but as far as I know they're not fitted with unifrogs :/ I want to use unifrogs since I heard they are the best for DCC which I want to use also. I mixed SL and ST because SCARM did not made separate category for Streamline and Setrack. I just noticed it. And maybe seeing that Setrack doesn't have long points like Streamline and I thought that ST-240/ST-241 would look kind of funny on the mainline where fast passengers services needs less "intense" radius while crossing points. Thanks for explanation to you and everyone else :D Ps. Sorry for any language mistakes. I'm not a native speaker but I'm trying my best to learn :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81F Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 I have used both Setrack and Streamline on my layout but you need to be careful how and where you use it. For example when having cross-overs do not mix the two types to make the crossovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Henny Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 Sorry for any language mistakes. I'm not a native speaker but I'm trying my best to learn. If there are mistakes, I have not noticed them and I don't see any previous posts making any comments either. To be honest, your written English is better than many posts I have read and published by native speakers.So, just out of curiosity, what is your native language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moawkwrd Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 Oh, okay. Now I understand. I was just looking for long, good quality code 100 points with unifrogs. I know Hornby has R8077/8079 in their offer but as far as I know they're not fitted with unifrogs :/ I want to use unifrogs since I heard they are the best for DCC which I want to use also. I mixed SL and ST because SCARM did not made separate category for Streamline and Setrack. I just noticed it. And maybe seeing that Setrack doesn't have long points like Streamline and I thought that ST-240/ST-241 would look kind of funny on the mainline where fast passengers services needs less "intense" radius while crossing points. Thanks for explanation to you and everyone else :D I prefer AnyRail and XTrackCAD for this reason - the different types of track need to be selected individually to add to a layout plan so it's not as easy to mix them up. Regarding DCC and unifrogs - code 100 streamline points aren't unifrog yet either. They're either insulfrog or electrofrog. The only points from Peco which are unifrog are the TT 120 Code 55, N Code 55, HO Code 83 and OO Code 75 Bullhead. However, it depends entirely on the wiring you intend to implement - as that's the point of unifrog, they're either insulfrog or electrofrog depending on if you wire up the frog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpntpntp Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 The only points from Peco which are unifrog are the TT 120 Code 55, N Code 55**, HO Code 83 and OO Code 75 Bullhead.** and only one point in the N code 55 range is Unifrog so far. To be honest I prefer Electrofrog for its looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartłomiej-375568 Posted December 22, 2023 Author Share Posted December 22, 2023 Sorry for any language mistakes. I'm not a native speaker but I'm trying my best to learn.If there are mistakes, I have not noticed them and I don't see any previous posts making any comments either. To be honest, your written English is better than many posts I have read and published by native speakers.So, just out of curiosity, what is your native language? I'm actually Polish sweat_smile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry-350851 Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 If you are working with flexible track, there are things called tracksettas that you can use to create a constant radius curve.I'd be another one to vote for using track planning software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 With Barry mentioning constant radius curves, there is a little trick that flexi track allows. Rather than constant radius through whole curve, flexi allows you to introduce a transition like on real trackwork. Improves running as well as looks and not as hard as it sounds 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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