Decoder reset?

[ntpntpntp]

5 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said:

This is how I have interpreted the DCC Controller vs LiasDCC is that you need to read the CV (Manufacturers ID) into the Controller and then certain lights/motor will operate for that particuliar Decoder when under test on the LiasDCC is this correct?.

No. the Elite doesn't doesn't care about the Manufacturer ID.  The Elite can run any brand of NMRA compliant decoder.   You're still confusing Manufacturer ID and  Decoder Address? The decoder address is the number you enter when calling up a loco to run it.    (There are two possible addresses long and short and also a consist address, but let's ignore all that for now and assume the decoder is set to run on a short address  eg 3 (the default))

You do need to know the decoder address (CV1 for the default short address).  To read the address you need to use the Programming Track connections of the Elite NOT the track connections.  

If you simply don't know the address and cannot read it then resetting the decoder should put it back to short address 3. 

Edited July 16 by ntpntpntp

[Ian-1301567]

4 minutes ago, ntpntpntp said:

Right.... back to basics.       

1) you have a Hornby Elie DCC system, correct?
2) You have a Hornby decoder, correct?
3) you have a LiasDCC decoder tester board, correct?
4) you know the DCC address of the decoder?

So...

1) connect decoder to the LaisDCC  decoder tester board.
2) connect Elite's track output to the LaisDCC decoder tester board.
3) call up the loco DCC address on the Elite just as you do to run a loco on the track.
4) turn the control knob to increase speed, the motor on the LiasDCC board should run.  Change direction and make sure the motor runs to opposite way.  This will prove that the decoder is alive, the address is what you think it is, and the decoder's output driver electronic are not blown up.
5) try the headlight function button on the Elite, the LED for F0 on the LaisDCC board should turn off and on in response to the button.

That's it really.  If the decoder's socket had more functions for other lights or for sound you could test those, but sounds like the decoder you have is a basic one just connected through an 8 pin socket?

 

Right many thanks for this. That makes sense for a laymans approach like myself.

[Ian-1301567]

It's just knowing what to look for on the LiasDCC Tester and where to go with the DCC Controller.

[LTSR_NSE]

That is the function of manuals - to explain how to operate a controller & what results should be observed in a loco/decoder tester!

[Ian-1301567]

I'm just a complete novice to all this digital world but its getting your head around what to look for within the equipment you have at your hands. But that information provided by ntpntpntp was very good.

[Ian-1301567]

1 minute ago, LTSR_NSE said:

That is the function of manuals - to explain how to operate a controller & what results should be observed in a loco/decoder tester!

Have you read some of these manuals its best getting step by step layman's instructions from someone of expertise in dealing with these systems.

[ntpntpntp]

@LTSR_NSE  Exactly.   Learn the basics of how to run a loco on the system, how to turn its lights on and off etc.
As was mentioned in an earlier reply the tester board  is simply pretending to be a loco so that you can plug in a decoder and check it is working before going to the effort of installing it in an actual loco.

I have an older design ESU tester board I picked up cheaply. (As someone said, the LiasDCC board is basically a clone/rip-off of the ESU design). I've used it a couple of times to test decoders I've acquired 🙂  

Edited July 16 by ntpntpntp

[ntpntpntp]

Just now, Ian-1301567 said:

Have you read some of these manuals its best getting step by step layman's instructions from someone of expertise in dealing with these systems

I've not read the Hornby Elite manuals as my DCC system is by NCE, but once you understand the principles they all do the same job 🙂Maybe watching some Youtube tutorial videos about the Elite would help?  I'm sure there will be some available. 
 

[LTSR_NSE]

7 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said:

Have you read some of these manuals

I have read many manuals (not related to model railways) - the ones written in proper English were much easier to understand than the ones badly translated.  The only DCC manuals I have read are the HM7000 one & the DCC-Ex wiki, I highly recommend both - very easy to understand!

Edited July 16 by LTSR_NSE

[Ian-1301567]

1 minute ago, LTSR_NSE said:

I have read many manuals (not related to model railways) - the ones written in proper English were much easier to understand than the ones badly translated.  The only DCC manual I have read is the HM7000 one, I highly recommend it - very easy to understand!

Right I will have a look at that manual (HM7000). Is that the new phone app one.

[LTSR_NSE]

Yes 👍😀

[ntpntpntp]

Is it a good idea to go off and read the HM7000  stuff if the OP is using an Elite?

I've just called up the Elite manual and had a quick scan through, it seems pretty good compared to some I've seen 🙂 A two page "Quick Start" gets you running a loco, then absorb the rest as-and-when you need it 🙂 

[LTSR_NSE]

The HM7000 manual won’t explain how to operate Elite (only Elite manual will do that!)

But if OP is finding Elite manual not particularly helpful in explaining DCC fundamentals & concepts - then imho HM7000 manual is excellent at doing that.

[ColinB]

1 hour ago, Brew Man said:

Some older decoders don't even facilitate the reading of CVs

Thank you for the information, I didn't know that. Other than the old Hornby ones I pick up in secondhand locos most of mine are relatively new. As you probably know when I started with DCC I tried all different types, I won't list them but some were terrible.

[ntpntpntp]

Only really really ancient decoders which you're unlikely to encounter now - if you do you'd want to rip out and replace anyway 🙂 
It's a bit like the earliest LGB decoders only recognising 14 step mode, only a limited number of addresses, and having noisy low frequency PWM.  People just remove and replace.  

I find the problem is more around the cheap DCC systems which don't have the ability to act as a Programming Track and don't have a display so cannot read CVs.  They let you program  the decoder to a limited range of addresses and force whichever speed step mode they're designed for.   A couple of examples I've come across:

Fleischmann Lok Boss could only run 4 loco addresses, cannot read CVs.  My first ever DCC controller, came with a start set. Still got it somewhere 🙂

Bachmann EZ Command can only run 9 addresses (don't count button 10 as that's the pseudo DC "zero-stretching" of the DCC signal, which we shouldn't use anyway).  It cannot read CVs. 

Edited July 16 by ntpntpntp

[Ian-1301567]

Wire Size to use for the connection to the rail from the DCC Controller as I read somewhere that they where using Lighting wire for connecting/soldering to the rails but I found this a bit too thick to solder and so was wondering what is the best opinion here to use in regards of Wire Size when connecting to the rails. What would you suggest as the general concensus?.

[Brew Man]

A lot of people, me included use mains wire for the supply bus and at least 16 x 0.2mm for droppers from the bus to the track, so really from the controller to the bus, (or track) the wire needs to be equivalent to the wire used for the bus, i.e. around 15A. That might sound overkill but it allows for pretty well any eventuality.

[96RAF]

Ian - in this thread you have raised a host of topics. You really should start a new thread for each distinct question.

I have no real idea of what your question(s) is(are) as they are all jumbled together along with the answers folk have attempted to give you.

In attempt to help: DCC 101

A decoder has an address which is out of the box value 3. You can change this to whatever value you like. Where this is stored is down to if it is a long or short address.

Decoder manufacturer and decoder model are stored as codes which you have to look up as explaind by Colin and others.

CVs (configuration variables) are characteristics of the decoder, most of which you can change by writing new values to. Altering these determines how the decoder reacts to commands.

CV8 is a special CV which is read only, but if you write a value of 8 to it (other decoders may have different reset values) then you reset the decoder back to out of the box default values across the board.

To operate a decoder you enter its address into your controller then you have control of speed, direction and any functions the decoder supports like lights and sound.

If you read the HM7K decoder manual from front to back all of the above and much, much more is explained in gret detail and that manual would have answered all the questions you have already asked.

[Fishmanoz]

Have you downloaded and read the manual yet?  It has answers for all the questions you are asking.

And as Colin has indicated, swapping orange and grey wires will not cause non-operation of the motor, only reverse its direction.  If it isn’t working with these wires swapped, there is something else at play in addition to the swap.

[ColinB]

5 hours ago, ntpntpntp said:

Only really really ancient decoders which you're unlikely to encounter now - if you do you'd want to rip out and replace anyway 🙂 
It's a bit like the earliest LGB decoders only recognising 14 step mode, only a limited number of addresses, and having noisy low frequency PWM.  People just remove and replace.  

I find the problem is more around the cheap DCC systems which don't have the ability to act as a Programming Track and don't have a display so cannot read CVs.  They let you program  the decoder to a limited range of addresses and force whichever speed step mode they're designed for.   A couple of examples I've come across:

Fleischmann Lok Boss could only run 4 loco addresses, cannot read CVs.  My first ever DCC controller, came with a start set. Still got it somewhere 🙂

Bachmann EZ Command can only run 9 addresses (don't count button 10 as that's the pseudo DC "zero-stretching" of the DCC signal, which we shouldn't use anyway).  It cannot read CVs. 

This is probably off topic, but programming is one thing the Elite is exceptional at, the downside is the lack of an enter key, pressing the rotary know doesn't quite hack it, especially when said item gets old. As to running locos I think everyone knows the system I favour, but even that has a few issues.

[Ian-1301567]

23 hours ago, ColinB said:

For LaisDCC here is a mail I got from CM models

Colin can you try writing 4 to cv8 and cv30 on a test track. This should do a factory reset on the chip and set the loco number back to 3

It did work, occasionally LaisDCC decoders get lost, I have no idea why.

Hi there,

You guys have all been very helpful with the advice given and I do apologise about these random topics as I know we have covered quite a variety,the reason being is that these topics just come into my head with the problems i have encountered. But I do find all your advice very helpful (eg. 96RAF,Colin,ntpntpntp & BrewMan to name but a few...)

[96RAF]

4 hours ago, Ian-1301567 said:

I do apologise about these random topics as I know we have covered quite a variety,the reason being is that these topics just come into my head with the problems i have encountered

Unfortunately if anyone wants to find these random topics and associated answers in future they never will, which is why having separate topics for each subject is paramount.