Moccasin Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 51 minutes ago, Grenkin said: I would say that one big issue of the video is his interpretation of his OO scale audience poll as - "No one is interested in the TT scale" At the same success I guess he can make a poll "How many people want to change to H0", and then report that H0 scale is dead and not interesting to anyone. Like many journalists in national media, he certainly needs some basic knowledge of statistics. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 18 minutes ago, Moccasin said: Like many journalists in national media, he certainly needs some basic knowledge of statistics. The big thing about statistics you can make whatever you want from them, just read a few Government figures. Only time will tell as to what happens with TT, perhaps in a years time you will all say Sam was wrong. Hornby has decided to sell them via their retailers, with a 10% discount which for most people doesn't sound like they are selling well. For me his review made an awful lot of sense, as it did to many other people. There again I model OO and I like the option to buy off other manufacturers for their products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moccasin Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, ColinB said: The big thing about statistics you can make whatever you want from them, just read a few Government figures. Only time will tell as to what happens with TT, perhaps in a years time you will all say Sam was wrong. Hornby has decided to sell them via their retailers, with a 10% discount which for most people doesn't sound like they are selling well. For me his review made an awful lot of sense, as it did to many other people. There again I model OO and I like the option to buy off other manufacturers for their products. The 10% TT120 discount is the same as retailers' 10% discount on OO (e.g. Gaugemaster) and no-one claims OO isn't selling well. Hornby removed their 15% club discount in favour of an additional 10% points, which itself has now been removed. The 10% retailer discount (which isn't universal) matches Hornby's 10% rewards across its whole range so they're just competing with Hornby. Certainly the selling out of thousands of trains sets and some locomotives suggests TT120 IS selling well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby11 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 23 hours ago, Simmo009 said: Whilst I am here, FYI, I am the chairman of the Stevenage & District MRC. We are close to finishing our new club main layout, which will include a 12m x 6m loop of TT120, so keep an eye on our website for the latest news on when this is ready. If your can get to us, you can give your little beauties a good runout. Did you really mean 12 metres by 6 metres? That's massive!! 3 hours ago, ColinB said: Then he said there are not enough of them which is absolutely true. It's a brand new scale and they've already said what they'll launch in the next few years. If it goes to plan, and it appears it is so far, then it should be OK. To expect a launch of many locos and stock is unrealistic to say the least. Even choosing which locos would be a nightmare! 38 minutes ago, ColinB said: The big thing about statistics you can make whatever you want from them, just read a few Government figures. Very true, but the issue we hve with him is that he used a "survey" that was already heavily weighted as "proof" that Hornby had made a mistake. I would expect the Press to do that but its rather sad when you see it from someone like him who is supposed to be unbiased. Edited February 26 by Hobby1707822967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, 96RAF said: Have a guess at resource numbers based on recent HH videos. There is one designer allocated with his boss supervising and taking the product next step up for sign off. Too many gen-pop folk think there sre dozens of folk milling around doing little bits and pieces to get the product out of the door. For a sound loco there is the designer, the sound guy and their boss and his boss. Allied trades are the livery guys and researchers. Add to that marketing of the product, some back stage guys doing the product pages, support pages like service sheets, etc and that's it. Most industries rely on one person to do a particular design, for the design of a car each person has one job or sometimes many. So for instance there would be one component engineer responsible for say an engine sensor or more depending on the complexity. Even in software we used to split the task down into chunks, operating system, input/out, processing tasks. You only have a team because there are so many parts. So not so different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Ford famously used committees to design their cars and these committees were banned from any communication with each other. 🤣 Meanwhile back on topic, Hornby are a big player in model railways but in corporate terms they are tiny, just like every other company in model railways. The idea that there are vast resources to enable infinite numbers of models to appear at the press of a button just goes to underline the misplaced comments by people who don’t have the first idea what they are talking about. It’s so bizarre that Heljan posted a tweak of a CAD drawing, that took 10mins to knock, up of a make believe TT loco they were possibly going to think about making and people thought they were marvellous, Hornby deliver a complete model railway system and loads of models and a long term plan and they are the villains? Let’s see how fast the HST sells out… little Sammy could be wrong, again 🤣 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ateshci Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Hope the bet in TT will reap continuous profit for Hornby. In Germany, after 1990, there was a short -lived enthusiastic move in the trade to expand their range to TT and you could buy items e.g. from more than one hobbyshop in my vicinity. There were established and new manufacturers heavily investing in the production of TT accessories and vehicles. But the expected sales figures, especially in western Germany, did not materialize and by the turn of the century, the availability of TT began to fade away. It kept a traditionally founded presence in eastern Germany, and all the sizeable manufacturers ( Tillig, Piko ) are located there. Roco, after a short-lived venture in the beginning, had abandoned TT for some 2 years before returning to the scale. Whether it is persistent this time, no one knows. So the market consists of mainly small manufacturers that sell over the internet and a handful of retailers. The best-stocked is EP, eastern Germany, where the model railway section is but a side business of their home-appliance store. So the ones who want to see and touch the product before they buy have a hard time when going for TT. The clientele is mostly middle-aged or older, the younger generation is almost absent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Big manufacturers seem very active in TT, Roco (and buying out Kuehn) Piko, Tillig, Arnold and I think a few of us have used a couple of the big model railway stores in German who seem to stock a lot of varied TT models. I can see one advantage continental ranges in HO and N have had, and that’s consistently in the scale and early adoption of technologies and finer quality, and although the track gauge in OO is actually HO, HO is that little bit smaller making it feel slightly more compact. I’m sure the challenges on railway space are just as important across Europe as they are in UK. I’m looking forward to a Pan European TT offering in the coming years and maybe even a resurgence in US, and who knows in Far East? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ateshci Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) @Rallymatt Mind you, Arnold IS Hornby! As Roco have bought Kuehn ( the owner, who I know personally, had to withdraw due to health reasons ), the very good Kuehn decoders are no longer available and what will become of the track system is uncertain. Edited February 27 by ateshci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Roco must have seen something of value in Kuehn. Roco have extended their TT range again this year. Although I wish they would fix my 108!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, ateshci said: Mind you, Arnold IS Hornby! But they didn't buy everything, so although they may have the product they may not have the background engineering or previous documentation or rights to certain data, , etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic Hornby Username Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, ateshci said: @Rallymatt Mind you, Arnold IS Hornby! As Roco have bought Kuehn ( the owner, who I know personally, had to withdraw due to health reasons ), the very good Kuehn decoders are no longer available and what will become of the track system is uncertain. There’s good news related to the track system. Roco acquired those toolings and relaunching them. The first few elements might already be shipping. Roco has also committed to expanding the system further. There seems to be a good amount of momentum in TT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HST Mainline Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I have no doubt that Roco's venture into TT (again) is because they see a benefit in what Hornby is doing. The problem with space is the same all over (perhaps not in the US) but definitely in most of Europe. TT is the perfect scale when it comes to achieveable details and size. Currently the continental TT market is mostly based on Eastern Bloc prototypes, but more western Europe stuff is seeing the light of day. I expect Hornby (through the Arnold brand) to release continental Class 66'es as they are all over the place over here. Hornby can also do ferry wagons and the Rail Adventure HST which is also running over here. Lot's of options. I see a lot of positive for TT, but I also see a path filled with challenges, because TT is up against H0 which is dominating the market. It takes some serious investment to move people over - and the model railway shops will have to invest in products they are not sure they will sell. This is perhaps one of the bigger challenges, the shops are not rich, they will tend to stick to what they know will work. TT is uncharted territory for most of them, so there is that to consider. The direct to consumer approach Hornby took in the beginning is not a bad idea, even though people found it bad behavior. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HST Mainline Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 ...oh and I expect the HST's to sell out fast. 😊 I ordered mine today! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMR248 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 On 2/26/2024 at 4:34 PM, Moccasin said: Like many journalists in national media, he certainly needs some basic knowledge of statistics. I think you give him a bit too much credit. Not quite national (Sam's Trains here, reporting from ...the loft) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moccasin Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, SMR248 said: I think you give him a bit too much credit. Not quite national (Sam's Trains here, reporting from ...the loft) Ha. I wasn’t including him, just comparing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Does this mean we are not going to see Sam reporting from ‘an unidentified dangerous warzone/model railway forum’ soon? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moccasin Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 17 minutes ago, Rallymatt said: Does this mean we are not going to see Sam reporting from ‘an unidentified dangerous warzone/model railway forum’ soon? RMWeb isn’t THAT bad! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmo009 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 @Hobby1707822967, yes 12m x 6m. We own an old chapel. Loads of space when all the pews come out. That size is the outside, TT120 will be approx 10m x 4m. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbo2 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 As a side comment, all this discussion on a Youtuber could mean more clicks to the video and more income for them. Win win That's their motive?! At least every video isn't a blatant "includes paid promotion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postman On The Rails Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, gilbo2 said: As a side comment, all this discussion on a Youtuber could mean more clicks to the video and more income for them. Win win That's their motive?! At least every video isn't a blatant "includes paid promotion". Not me blocked his channel 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge1965 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 39 minutes ago, Postman On The Rails said: Not me blocked his channel Snap.. Blocked anyone that does a review on YT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaffsTT Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) Like all content, its there to view if so inclined. What it brings out for me is how early in the TT:120 journey we are, and in respect to a new/old gauge release, what have we got to compare it against? How long did N or OO gauges take to get going? If Hornby folds, I would feel disappointed and concerned with what I could financially lose with what I have invested so far (2nd time around), but would it be reasonable to assume another company would consume the brand and/or produce their own TT product to fill the void? Likely I should think. I think, lets see how the gauge builds, how they address quality concerns with locos, decoders, etc, and establish a gauge they have near total control over. You never know, other manufacturers may already be looking at new TT lines themselves on the back of Hornbys success with it. Edited February 28 by Taff TT Typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HST Mainline Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Hornby will not fold. The brand is too valuable. There will always be some investors ready to try their luck. I am sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moccasin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 31 minutes ago, HST Mainline said: Hornby will not fold. The brand is too valuable. There will always be some investors ready to try their luck. I am sure. Given that their share price has almost doubled in the last week after Frasers took their 9% stake and nearly tripled since the shares were priced at less than 14p a few weeks before, I think it's reasonable to say that Hornby is looking quite healthy. The revenue being brought in from TT120 and HM7000 is no doubt helping to recover their balance sheet after a lot of investment over the past few years. It's a little sad that the new regime will get much (all?) of the credit for the recent turnaround despite the improvement in the company's model railway business being largely driven by decisions made several years ago. I guess that's life though and the new CEO and his new team are clearly doing things right to build on the successes started by others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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