Invicta Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Hi there, Coming back into railway modelling after a long, long break and just wanted to check my understanding. I have purchased the 'DCC Ready' Class 08 shunter and a ring of track with a siding to get me started. I'm hoping to nab one of our old Hornby Controllers from back in the 80's off my brother later today - he stole the train set when we left home🙂- which will be like 12 volt DC supply I think. So, first question is; am I right that this will power my new shunter and get me going? I have got the TT8001 power track and some suitable wire to handle the track connection. What I really have my eyes on though, are the new Class 50's which are hopefully imminent. And I'm also thinking I would like to upgrade pretty quickly to the HM7000 system before I get too deep in. But for my Class 08, the 6 pin Bluetooth controller (R7321) seems to be out of stock until the Autumn. So, if I buy a Class 50 with a sound decoder fitted, can I remove the controller and just run it analogue until the 6pin controllers return for my class 08? Anyone have any idea if it's normal for trains with decoders fitted to come with a blanking plate, or will I need to buy one, or can I just leave it empty? When the 6pin decoders are available again, and to make the jump to full HM7000, am I right in thinking I need a new transformer- like R7337 and the digital power track (TT8029) to get the right power in? (I have the app on my phone already!) Am I right in thinking this is because the Digital stuff needs an 15V AC supply? Or is there some other way to go straight to HM7000 now that I've missed? Thanks in advance. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postman On The Rails Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 They DCC Fitted locos don’t come with a blanking plate. But yes you can remove the chip if you want. My understanding is that you can still run it fitted in place as an analogue loco just ensure you don’t go above its voltage rating. The problem I have is if your track is set up for DCC then you can’t run a non DCC unit as you have a constant track power. The 6 pins haven’t been released yet so I anm eagerly awaiting the decoders to run my shunter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 If you remove the decoder you will need to purchase a blanking plate to replace it with - leaving the socket empty completely isolates the circuitry & loco cannot work. Only the DCC Ready (i.e. no decoder fitted) locos come with a blanking plate. It is strongly recommended not to try running HM7000 decoder fitted locos using an analogue controller - you would be mixing delicate modern electronics with a power source that can easily cause them problems/damage. Hence this mode is disabled by default & would need manually enabling at customer’s own risk. You are correct that R7337 is a recommended power supply for HM7000 (but you don’t need the digital power track - this is only needed for those connecting a DCC controller to the track.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Can I direct you to the HM DCC (HM 7000) Section of the forum. There is loads of good reference material on HM DCC and how to get started etc. The key to thing to realise is electronics have moved on since ‘80s so even on DC, modern controllers are a much safer option. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelerXYZ Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Hi, Welcome. A DCC ready loco is actually an anolouge controlled loco, so it would be right to use on your controller. I don't know anything about the HM7000 system, but if it needs the app to run, I don't want it, I like my DCC setup with my elite. XYZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 As has been stated many times HM7000 decoders can be controlled by app or a DCC controller! 🤦♂️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 HM DCC (HM 7000) is both a traditional DCC system and Bluetooth enabled for control and programming, hence why some reference to the section on it in the forum will help. It clears up the myths often associated with DCC 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ateshci Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 The old DC controllers of the eighties won't do any harm to the decoders -they were variac transformers with out any electronics at all. ( Now don't name the then newfangled transistor throttles and the like, they existed, of course, but not on the average home layout ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 @ateshci Hornby advise against almost all DC controllers (except HM6000 at highest PWM frequency.) The older ones due to lack of transient voltage spike protection (which can kill the decoder) & the more modern ones due to lower PWM frequencies being mistaken (by decoder) for DCC & resulting in inconsistent sound/control. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 If I might start by answering your first question Invicta - yes, your old controller will control your 08. However, given it is now over 40 years old and insulation can deteriorate, have it checked out by an electrician first. On your subsequent questions on HM7000: You already have advice above to not use the old controller given Hornby’s recommendations and that the analog power track is suitable with the R7337 The HM7000-6 is not out of stock, it is yet to be released. Consequently the date shown may not be achieved. Also, until it is released, we don’t know if it will fit into the 08, although the indications are that it will in the absence of an N18 blanking plate for the Class 50, you could buy the analog DCC Ready version for now, then buy and fit either the HM7000-N18TXS or HM7000-N18 later when you have the decoder (not controller) for the 08 available. Note none of the non-sound decoders have been released yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invicta Posted March 31 Author Share Posted March 31 Thanks everyone. So it's a Hammant and Morgan Executive controller. I've just tested it out with a multimeter and I get up to 20 volts DC. So I'm thinking I shouldn't really have it turned up that high. About halfway seems to be a nice steady 12 Volts, so I'll just try it on there with only my 08 and see how that is. For the sake of a few months, I think I'll be patient and just run two completely separate tracks, until I can upgrade my 08. So I can have my Class 50 with a DCC control on a different isolated loop. Thanks Again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritInVanCA Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 7 hours ago, LTSR_NSE said: If you remove the decoder you will need to purchase a blanking plate to replace it with - leaving the socket empty completely isolates the circuitry & loco cannot work. Only the DCC Ready (i.e. no decoder fitted) locos come with a blanking plate. It is strongly recommended not to try running HM7000 decoder fitted locos using an analogue controller - you would be mixing delicate modern electronics with a power source that can easily cause them problems/damage. Hence this mode is disabled by default & would need manually enabling at customer’s own risk. You are correct that R7337 is a recommended power supply for HM7000 (but you don’t need the digital power track - this is only needed for those connecting a DCC controller to the track.) I wish Hornby gave you a blanking plate with the DCC fitted locos. It would be a nice piece of flexibility 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 13 minutes ago, BritInVanCA said: I wish Hornby gave you a blanking plate with the DCC fitted locos. It would be a nice piece of flexibility To be fair I don't think any of the other manufacturers do either. I think the only ones I have got with the DC header (blanking plate) included are the ones I have bought from Rails where they have done the conversion. Mind you I have loads of the 8 pin headers. Every time I buy a DCC socket it comes with its own header, which I very rarely use. Trouble is a lot of the newer ones have diodes and smd components on them to make the lights work when running on DC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 47 minutes ago, BritInVanCA said: I wish Hornby gave you a blanking plate with the DCC fitted locos. It would be a nice piece of flexibility 29 minutes ago, ColinB said: To be fair I don't think any of the other manufacturers do either. a lot of the newer ones have diodes and smd components on them to make the lights work when running on DC. I wholeheartedly agree that it would be beneficial if all manufacturers included a blanking plate in accessory bag of decoder fitted locos. Not just for the reason above, it would also encourage DCC fence-sitters to plump for the fitted model, knowing it would be usable whichever way they go & potentially cheaper if they do choose DCC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 It would certainly offer a useful Extra for fault finding if you could isolate a decoder and check rest of loco, provided people had a suitable DC power and control system (9v battery is pretty effective) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 22 minutes ago, LTSR_NSE said: I wholeheartedly agree that it would be beneficial if all manufacturers included a blanking plate in accessory bag of decoder fitted locos. Not just for the reason above, it would also encourage DCC fence-sitters to plump for the fitted model, knowing it would be usable whichever way they go & potentially cheaper if they do choose DCC! I think in virtually all cases it is cheaper to buy the loco with the DCC/DCC Sound option fitted. Normally the saving is £10 to £20 and you don't have the hassle of taking the loco apart to fit it. Also with special releases it is quite often difficult to get the right sound decoder separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritInVanCA Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 55 minutes ago, Rallymatt said: It would certainly offer a useful Extra for fault finding if you could isolate a decoder and check rest of loco, provided people had a suitable DC power and control system (9v battery is pretty effective) Yeah. My Night Hawk had a problem that I suspected was the decoder. I could confirm that only because I had a blanking plate from my Falcon which I bought DCC ready. Going forward I’ll probably buy DCC fitted if available as it’s cheaper. It would also be good if you wanted to sell the loco but put the decoder in another item Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunmarc88 Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Is it possible to buy the blanking plate separately or is it only available in the locos bought as DCC ready. I agree with most, it would be nice to have one supplied for those who haven’t decided yet but it would add extra cost to the DCC fitted models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moawkwrd Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 1 minute ago, taunmarc88 said: Is it possible to buy the blanking plate separately or is it only available in the locos bought as DCC ready. I agree with most, it would be nice to have one supplied for those who haven’t decided yet but it would add extra cost to the DCC fitted models. Peter's Spares occasionally has them for the Next18 socket. I assume they're compatible with any Next18 loco? Does anyone know? Otherwise might be a case of searching eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ateshci Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 They should work with every so equipped loco. Tillig had a hang for violating the norm in Plux-equipped locos, but that doesn't apply to Next18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpntpntp Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 The whole point of having a defined standard interface such as Next18 is decoders and blanking plates are interchangeable. There was a period when it was difficult to find Next 18 blanking plates for sale separately, but should be so much of a problem now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 If anyone is struggling to get a N18 decoder blanking plate, I have a couple spare and would happily post one to someone in need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Hornby requested to consider including blanking plates in the box for future dcc fitted models or provisioning them as purchasable spares. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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