Interview with Hornby Brand MD

[Dawn Quest]

A interview with Martyn Weaver, Brand MD at Hornby. Martyn talks about TT 120, getting more teens into the hobby, the Flying Scotsman and Black 5, plus answers questions on everything from spare parts to future projects and what info Hornby take on board or sometimes dismiss from forum groups and other focus groups in their marketing and development plans.

https://youtu.be/k7UWDy5yn5U?si=onl50J5nDxQlVRT4

[Dawn Quest]

For clarification - Martyn explains that Hornby Hobbies found that the issue with the Black 5 first came to their attention in forum groups which was valuable in terms of providing feedback - they might not agree with every criticism but do pay attention to what's being said in groups such as these. 

[96RAF]

52 minutes ago, Dawn Quest said:

For clarification - Martyn explains that Hornby Hobbies found that the issue with the Black 5 first came to their attention in forum groups which was valuable in terms of providing feedback - they might not agree with every criticism but do pay attention to what's being said in groups such as these. 

It is also wise to note that whenever thought necessary the forum Moderators will report post content back to Hornby to ensure any concerns get fed to the correct personnel in Hornby Towers or their outlying stations.

[What About The Bee]

I took away a few points

Average development time.  Martyn stated 18 months from decision to product, but that Locomotion No.1 took longer.  Not a surprise, it takes time to flesh out an idea.  Interesting confirmation.

TT:120 is successful from a commercial standpoint.  That is healthy for the institution.  Even if I never go TT:120, a good revenue stream is beneficial as a whole for the organization, which benefits me indirectly.

Spares and serviceability.  Sorry Martyn.  Where are my service sheets for locomotives that have come out in the past few years?  How am I to service a locomotive when I cannot even see how its put together.  I do wish Hornby would catch up.

Hornby is a RTR company.  There will not be kits to make your own stock, manufactured by Hornby.  3D printing opens the door to make nearly anything you want.  A kit is the intermediate between RTR and 3D scratch building.  Better to focus on strengths, which is RTR.  

Lastly, the way Hornby considers feedback.  Not over-reacting to an extremely vocal minority, who sometimes have an ax to grind.  But carefully considering trends and valid concerns.  That is a measured response.

Adroit interview Dawn.  Well done

Bee

[Bulleidboy]

I thought it was an interesting interview, albeit many of the questions have been aired before. Spares and Service Sheets are an issue which Bee has mentioned and that, I would have thought could be easily rectified.  The problem with any hobby and keeping people interested, is the cost. All hobbies whether its model railways to stamp collecting, it starts with low cost and easily accessible items, but as you progress the costs rise. I have a collection of model Ferrari cars, about one hundred and fifty, they have been boxed up and in the loft for years. Low cost models were readily available from specialist suppliers, but when you start looking at greater detail the cost rises - steeply - and in this case, the interest died. If you liked trains when you were young the chances are you will always have an interest, and as you get older disposable income may allow that interest to become a reality - but as a hobby it grows slowly, the problem today is that everybody wants everything now.  

Edited May 23 by Bulleidboy

[What About The Bee]

9 minutes ago, Bulleidboy said:

...but when you start looking at greater detail the cost rises - steeply ...

Martyn raised that exact point, within Dawn's interview: the relationship of detail with cost.

The first step in solving a problem is understanding what the problem is.  It does appear that Martyn gets it.

Bee

[ColinB]

2 hours ago, What About The Bee said:

I took away a few points

Average development time.  Martyn stated 18 months from decision to product, but that Locomotion No.1 took longer.  Not a surprise, it takes time to flesh out an idea.  Interesting confirmation.

TT:120 is successful from a commercial standpoint.  That is healthy for the institution.  Even if I never go TT:120, a good revenue stream is beneficial as a whole for the organization, which benefits me indirectly.

Spares and serviceability.  Sorry Martyn.  Where are my service sheets for locomotives that have come out in the past few years?  How am I to service a locomotive when I cannot even see how its put together.  I do wish Hornby would catch up.

Hornby is a RTR company.  There will not be kits to make your own stock, manufactured by Hornby.  3D printing opens the door to make nearly anything you want.  A kit is the intermediate between RTR and 3D scratch building.  Better to focus on strengths, which is RTR.  

Lastly, the way Hornby considers feedback.  Not over-reacting to an extremely vocal minority, who sometimes have an ax to grind.  But carefully considering trends and valid concerns.  That is a measured response.

Adroit interview Dawn.  Well done

Bee

From my preorders wait, generally the time from decision to product is two to three years. As to the spares yes he is right, they do make a lot of locos and they can't be expected to keep spares for all of them but sadly you cannot get spares for a lot of the recently released locos. Good interview though.

[Brew Man]

And not to mention instruction sheets for recent locos. Don't understand that.

[Bulleidboy]

1 hour ago, ColinB said:

From my preorders wait, generally the time from decision to product is two to three years. As to the spares yes he is right, they do make a lot of locos and they can't be expected to keep spares for all of them but sadly you cannot get spares for a lot of the recently released locos. Good interview though.

I recall Simon Kohler sometime ago, saying that it was three years from decision to the product at the shop.

[96RAF]

Service and maintenance sheets are a must. Spares need to be scaled in proportion at inception of the project. Any consumer project runs by those basic premises.

[Going Spare]

As indeed Hornby used to operate up until around 20 years ago, i.e. well after the move to China, but staff with that experience & expertise were dispensed with under previous management.  The provision of spares/servicing documentation has never fully recovered and, despite the brand MD's comments, probably never will as neither appear now to be viewed as a core customer service.  Somewhat disturbing Martyn virtually ruled-out supporting product more than just 5 years old.

[What About The Bee]

I am willing to give Martyn the benefit of doubt @Going Spare 

It is not just a core customer service.  Perhaps Martyn is unaware of the incredible profit center that is the Spares Dept.  Perhaps he does not realize that the cost of running a Spares Dept is easily supported by the sales of spares AND those sales provide a direct profit contribution to the overall bottom line.

It is easy to see the Spares Dept as a cost without financial benefit.  Technical Writers and Illustrators have an associated salary.  Filling a stockroom with kit that sits and sits merely ties up capital.  Warehouse Workers and a Shipping Dept also take an outlay of funds.  Where is the ROI?

Setting all of this back up, with the return on investment off in the future may not make this a top priority for Martyn.  

But frankly, where else am I to purchase the part that Hornby designed?  The design is proprietary.  If I need the part, I will pay the price.  A price Hornby can set so as to make the Spares Dept a profit center.

Martyn is taking on a monumental challenge.  To reform an institution from the inside out AND satisfy impatient investors.  I do not envy him in this role.  I say we give him a chance to make it right.  It may not happen tomorrow, or even the day after tomorrow. 

But happen it must.  Where in the heck are my exploded parts diagrams?  How can I buy a spare without knowledge of what spare I am looking for?

Bee

[LTSR_NSE]

I agree wholeheartedly that an improvement to service sheets & spares practice would be fantastic.

However (playing devil’s advocate) I believe that Hornby’s current practice can be explained (but not altogether justified) by reversing @What About The Bee’s question - why do you need an exploded diagram of parts, if those parts aren’t going to be made available separately?

Hornby currently appear to be operating the following practice:
• if something breaks during or just after warranty period - contact them & they will repair/replace as spares stock allows.
• if something breaks after a longer period (e.g. 5yrs) - modern items aren’t designed to last, so why produce large quantities of spares that would simply encourage customers to expect/attempt to keep their models running for longer than this?

Regardless of any/all individual opinions of current prices - sealed motors & plastic gears are not manufactured to last.  Model companies have simply evolved from:
• all metal parts that were designed to last - but models were only affordable by the wealthy.
• brushes, springs, lubrication, etc. sold as consumables to keep models running - but plastic parts start to reduce life expectancy.
• sealed motors, plastic cogs, etc. sold as consumables to keep models running - but different models need different parts.
• currently the different companies all have very different attitudes towards warranty periods, spares stocks, whether spares are separately  purchasable or only available for warranty repairs etc.

** Conclusion removed as it was a sustainability rant that almost certainly breached politics guidelines & therefore was only tenuously relevant anyway. **

Edited May 24 by LTSR_NSE

[ColinB]

11 hours ago, Going Spare said:

As indeed Hornby used to operate up until around 20 years ago, i.e. well after the move to China, but staff with that experience & expertise were dispensed with under previous management.  The provision of spares/servicing documentation has never fully recovered and, despite the brand MD's comments, probably never will as neither appear now to be viewed as a core customer service.  Somewhat disturbing Martyn virtually ruled-out supporting product more than just 5 years old.

Interestingly I was looking at the Hornby spares available on their site the other day. Most of the spares seemed to be from locos well over 5 years old. I have bought motors off of them but generally it is a very short window when they have them. Now if you look at Lendons. New Modellers, Peters Spares and the rest they seem to have much later spares. So basically I just get the opinion they are left with the spares that basically never sold. Perhaps what they should do is write lists of what we used to call in the motor trade "fast moving items" things like replacement buffers, couplings and dare I say it charge a sensible price for them rather than in their case way below what others are. That way at least the things that easily fall off a model could be replaced.

[Brew Man]

Not sure about the rest but I know Peter's Spares actually have some spare parts manufactured themselves.

[96RAF]

In the RAF we had ranging and scaling committees that determined how many of each spare was needed to support any piece of new kit and where those would be held.

This exercise was based upon the number of items intended to be in service and the depth of servicing deemed economical, coupled to where such spares may need to be held on forward supply around the world to support the fleet.

The whole methodology was a carefully crafted exercise and it was applied to everything, a hammer or nut and bolt to whole aircraft.

The same thing is scalable to any product to determine what fast moving spares may be required and which slow moving spares may be required in future as reliability matures.

[ColinB]

1 hour ago, Brew Man said:

Not sure about the rest but I know Peter's Spares actually have some spare parts manufactured themselves.

I know Lendons and AC Spares get them from Hornby, in fact Lendons has a list of parts that he doesn't hold but can get on back order from Hornby. None of these items appear in the Hornby spares on the Hornby site. Generally I have the only parts Hornby are good for are motors but you have to hit the window of when they have them. Everyone goes to Peters Spares which is why he is the first to run out.

[Rallymatt]

In the motor industry, most manufacturers work on the principle that their OEM Parts operation will be the money spinner. 
The concept of providing excellent parts support in the Model Railway hobby could have a huge amount of potential, I have always understood Märklin have always been very good at this and it goes a long way to creating their strong brand image. Accurascale have launched ‘lifetime warranty’ although I think most modellers accept that 1-2years is acceptable an extensive ongoing parts support service would be more appreciated and a potential earner. At some point some parts will run out but that’s not a reason to expand the idea. 
 

The actual interview was probably the best I have seen, Martyn seems more relaxed in that role and Dawn was excellent. 

Edited May 24 by Rallymatt

[ntpntpntp]

12 minutes ago, Rallymatt said:

I have always understood Märklin have always been very good at this and it goes a long way to creating their strong brand image.

Yes indeed, and I've used their spares service for Minitrix N gauge items over the decades. Fleischmann have also been good in this regard though not to the same level as Märklin group.  It is fair to say some of the really old parts have now run out, but there are certainly some parts for 1970 & 80s locos still available.    For other spares there are 3rd party firms who specialise in recovering parts from scrapped models as well as selling new parts. Spur-N-Teile.de as one example I use.
I can remember my teenager Saturday job in the local toy shop in the 80s we had a book of service sheets and trays of Hornby spares and they were popular.   I used to fit spares for people if they felt unable to do it themselves. 
I'm not a fan of the throw-away culture we seem to be moving to, with unserviceable sealed can motors and lack of other spares should something break.  I like to get stuck-in to restoring locos with spares, recovered bits and pieces or 3D printed bits I draw up myself if needed.