Philip Anthony-1312986 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Some years ago I bought Blanford Forum a West Country DCC ready Hornby engine. I fitted a Hornby decoder and all has been fine. Recently I have tried to upgrade to Hornby sound and installed a new sound decoder. All appears well with the sound but the engine will not move. This is either using the App nor using my NCE. I have fitted Hornby sound decoders to other engines both Hornby and Bachmann with no issues. I have tried two local shops who sell Hornby and offer a repair service and both have said it appears to be a problem with the engine. I have contacted Tech Support but they only recommend me taking it to a repair agent which I have done twice. Any one else had a similar issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Hopefully a mod will move this to the HM| DCC forum where it belongs and which is full of similar problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpntpntp Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Is this a plug-in decoder or hard wired? Have you tried reverting to the old decoder or a DC blanking plate and confirming the loco still works with those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 (edited) Assuming the decoder is a HM7000 (with mention of an app?) have you loaded a specific sound profile? or are you using the default factory supplied one? (The default factory supplied profile is a known to contain bugs that can cause no movement - resolved by installing any of the updated profiles.) You mentioned the loco being DCC Ready so the answer to @ntpntpntp’s question hopefully is that you are simply plugging the decoder into an existing socket? If so - I second his suggestion of trying loco with a blanking plug either on DC or with a 9V battery - to prove motor etc. are still working. If loco works properly with blanking plate - then performing a motor stall test would be recommended to check for compatibility with decoders. Edited June 28 by LTSR_NSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Anthony-1312986 Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 Hi and thanks for the replies. As I said in my original post the Engine worked ok with DC and when I plugged in a DCC decoder. It was only when I fitted the sound decoder I had problems. I have downloaded the Merchant Navy sound file as this was the nearest to the West Country sound file and this works with the App, sounding the horn, wheel slip etc. Its just that the engine will not respond to movement from the App. You mention carrying out a motor stall test. I have not come across this before but have looked this up so I can see the point if mixing manufacturers. However as the engine is a Hornby DCC ready engine I am assuming the Hornby sound decoder is compatible. After all why would Hornby sell decoders that are not rated for their DCC ready engines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 You don't say whether this is a decoder in loco or decoder in tender type. To me it sounds like something simple like a connection to the motor is missing. Have you tried putting the old decoder back and see it still runs. I will run through the things I think it could be:- Bad soldered joint on 8 bin DCC decoder socket, which when you changed decoder disturbed it. The pins are thinner on the HM7000 so it is not making a good contact with the decoder socket. If the loco has a 4 pin connector between loco and tender then possibly an issue with one of the two inner connections (unless someone has modified it, it won't have one). Wire got pulled off when fitting decoder, if socket in the loco. Worse case it could be the decoder but I doubt it, but you could try fitting it in another loco. I have loads of these locos and they are usually no problem, they have the standard Hornby motor. As to the two repairers, I am amazed that they couldn't fix it. You check the decoder on a decoder tester and the loco either on DC or using another decoder, if you repair locos all the time not exactly rocket science. As I say these decoders are pretty good, so unless it is a manufacturing fault, I doubt there is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Just now, Philip Anthony-1312986 said: Hi and thanks for the replies. As I said in my original post the Engine worked ok with DC and when I plugged in a DCC decoder. It was only when I fitted the sound decoder I had problems. I have downloaded the Merchant Navy sound file as this was the nearest to the West Country sound file and this works with the App, sounding the horn, wheel slip etc. Its just that the engine will not respond to movement from the App. You mention carrying out a motor stall test. I have not come across this before but have looked this up so I can see the point if mixing manufacturers. However as the engine is a Hornby DCC ready engine I am assuming the Hornby sound decoder is compatible. After all why would Hornby sell decoders that are not rated for their DCC ready engines? If it worked with the Hornby decoder which has a maximum current limit of 500 milliamp, HM7000 is supposedly 1000 milliamps, so I doubt it is your motor. If your motor was drawing excess current it would have blown up you original decoder. Hopefully you didn't hard wire the decoder. Replace the HM7000 with the original Hornby decoder, does it still work? If it does then there is a fault with your HM7000, if it doesn't try it on DC. If it doesn't work on DC then a wire has broken to the motor. The other thing to check is the pins on the two decoders are the pins on the HM7000 thinner (sorry all my ones are 21 pin), this may be the issue. It may be that the thinner pins are not making good contact, in which case thry pulling the header out and pushing it back it, that sometimes fixes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Phillip, no need to worry about compatibility or stall tests - unlikely to be anything to do with this issue on this occasion. The tip Colin mentioned about angling the pins on the plug so they interfere more with the socket is a good one, but don't overdo it! Best bet is to work through the troubleshooting guide on this forum where all the various processes and fixes are catalogued but as a first step try switching everything off (loco, PSU and table/phone) wait a good couple of minutes then switch it all back on. This often clears stubborn glitches like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 7 minutes ago, SteveM6 said: Phillip, no need to worry about compatibility or stall tests - unlikely to be anything to do with this issue on this occasion. The tip Colin mentioned about angling the pins on the plug so they interfere more with the socket is a good one, but don't overdo it! Best bet is to work through the troubleshooting guide on this forum where all the various processes and fixes are catalogued but as a first step try switching everything off (loco, PSU and table/phone) wait a good couple of minutes then switch it all back on. This often clears stubborn glitches like this. Actually I just said pull it out and push it back in, sometimes that works, you have to be so careful bending pins, i don't even do it. A lot of times it is the socket, the solder crystallises and the act of removing the plug moves the pin slightly and creates a dry joint. Mind you it is so easy to disturb the wires to the motor without realising you have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Anthony-1312986 Posted July 1 Author Share Posted July 1 I have taken out the sound decoder and reinstalled the Hornby DCC decoder I was using before. The engine works fine so my next test is to install the sound decoder in another Hornby engine to see if its the decoder at fault. Not sure why Technical Support did not suggest this when I asked for help but this form has been really useful. I will come back with the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 (edited) Obvious suggestion, make sure you are installing the decoder the correct way up. Once happy from looking at the diagrams indicating Pin 1 for both the decoder and the socket. Look at the various threads on unassigning and deleting decoder, reset the App Device and track power, re-assign decoder and re-load the sound profile. That usually gets any non mover going in these circumstances. You could try a different profile too, that helps overwrite anything on the decoder, then go through the process again and upload the correct profile. It’s actually been very rare to be a duff decoder but usually some issue in upload. Edited July 1 by Rallymatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 A good reason to buy a decoder test rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Anthony-1312986 Posted July 1 Author Share Posted July 1 Thanks for the replies. I have a 9F (Evening Star) which has a Hornby DCC decoder in. I have just tried fitting the sound decoder into the 9F. Deleted the existing profile and reinstalled including the 9F profile. Sound on but again the engine will not move. Put the DCC chip back in all ok with engine running. I think this must prove something wrong with the sound chip. I think it unlikely that two engines would have the same problem eg hr connection so must assume the sound chip faulty. Perhaps your suggestion (96RAF) to buy a decoder test rig may be prudent. However if the quality control was good in manufacture would not need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 Just now, Philip Anthony-1312986 said: However if the quality control was good in manufacture would not need to. It is a valuable tool to be able to test and set up a decoder, knowing it is good and that if upon installation you meet problems it hs to be the loco. The price is worth all the aggro it saves, nothing at all to do with quality control, in fact it confirms quality control. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 It’s sounding like the decoder but ….. we know that many decoders returned are found to be good by Hornby. First things I would be doing is to put the decoder back in the West County then follow Rallymatt’s advice 4 posts above. In fact, his is the standard advice which has been found to fix many supposedly faulty decoders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 From what you describe it looks like the sound decoder. You have tried it in two good locos that previously worked with other decoders, so that says it is duff. Could be a ton of things wrong with the decoder but that is not your issue any more. Get a returns number off Hornby and send it back. Having a decoder tester would have avoided checking it in another loco, but you got the same result so not an issue, it just makes it easier. The thing I cannot understand is why is it that two supposed repairers pointed the fault at your loco when obviously there isn't. There again why doesn't that surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukedog. Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 Can you use any decoder rig with any decoder I.E can you test a Hornby decoder on a Zimo rig ect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 4 minutes ago, Dukedog. said: Can you use any decoder rig with any decoder I.E can you test a Hornby decoder on a Zimo rig ect Yes you can and all different types. I bought a LaisDCC one, although people on here moan about it, it works perfectly. The big advantage is you can test a decoder before you put it in the loco, so it avoids taking the loco apart to fit decoder and find it is duff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon Sailing Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 @Philip-Anthony. I think that all the usual steps for identifying what the problem might be have already been highlighted in the answers above. I too encountered exactly the same problem (sound but no motion control) recently when I installed a new 8pin HM7K into a Hornby Drummond 700. The decoder had first been tested, and the sound profile installed, on my test-board…everything running fine. On installation into the loco, however, I had sound but no motion, with no apparent reason why (the loco was on a rolling road). The loco was re-tested on DC, and stall-tested to c.375mA, and then with another HM7k decoder - everything fine, so it wasn’t the loco causing the issue. The decoder is currently back with Hornby (George Waller), being tested on their, presumably, much better diagnostic equipment. I suspect that occasionally a decoder’s circuitry simply goes AWOL - this may be one of those occasions. So, in short, speak/write to Hornby and get them to take a look at it…… Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 All of the above 4 posts provide good advice but … given this is an HM7000 decoder, and only because it is, first see my post 5 above and then Matt’s 4 above that. If still no movement after trying all of Matt’s (emphasise all), then yes return it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 6 hours ago, ColinB said: I bought a LaisDCC one, although people on here moan about it, it works perfectly. The only reason that one gets any criticism is due to it being cloned IP. Since the makers were not unintelligent (just plagiarists) it isn’t that surprising it works! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 7 hours ago, LTSR_NSE said: The only reason that one gets any criticism is due to it being cloned IP. Since the makers were not unintelligent (just plagiarists) it isn’t that surprising it works! And a petty fiver cheaper than the real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 7 hours ago, LTSR_NSE said: The only reason that one gets any criticism is due to it being cloned IP. Since the makers were not unintelligent (just plagiarists) it isn’t that surprising it works! They probably did, that was the first one I found when I was looking. Actually it is not difficult to make one if you are into this, I could, but it is just not worth it for what I paid. The original topic was about a sound decoder not working not the merits of plagiarists. If you want to pay significantly more then buy the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pee trust Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 On 01/07/2024 at 16:22, 96RAF said: It is a valuable tool to be able to test and set up a decoder, knowing it is good and that if upon installation you meet problems it hs to be the loco. The price is worth all the aggro it saves, nothing at all to do with quality control, in fact it confirms quality control. I use mine continuously for installs, including loading sound files. So easy. It also shows up any slack 8pin plugs as it is possible to "wiggle" the plug outside of the install. Personally, having met loose pins many times, l now tweak them upon opening the package. A most valuable tool, worth its cost many times over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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