moawkwrd Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 (edited) As a newcomer to the hobby (relatively) I still haven't progressed past the ballasting stage on any of the layouts I've attempted. Even though I'm severely space limited, with the price increases of TT over the past 12-18 months I'm seriously considering selling all the rolling stock I have and sticking with cheap, old, used OO stuff instead. Yes I'll end up with a more compromised and compressed layout, but when I can get 2-3 decent OO locos for the price of one new TT loco and often 3 OO coaches for the price of 1 TT coach, waiting for the TT range to grow is becoming a more difficult sell I think as prices increase. But that's more an argument of used vs new rather than TT vs OO. And I am a total skinflint. Edited August 17 by moawkwrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 17 Author Share Posted August 17 17 minutes ago, Rallymatt said: Pretty much everything you have said Colin is inaccurate. Ok have it your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 17 Author Share Posted August 17 18 minutes ago, Brew Man said: You can have Bluetooth control via the dongle of course. Yes but then you have to have a DCC controller so you might as well stick with DCC. They would have been better off upgrading the Xlink to have wifi/bluetooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 Reasonable price rises in line with inflation. On a local FB community page an odd job man announced that he is being forced to raise his labour rate from £25/hr to £37/hr just to keep pace. Nice rise if you can get it, but I guess his customer base will fall away instead. Same applies with any product, price yourself out of the current market and it is wasted investment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 17 Author Share Posted August 17 14 minutes ago, 96RAF said: Reasonable price rises in line with inflation. On a local FB community page an odd job man announced that he is being forced to raise his labour rate from £25/hr to £37/hr just to keep pace. Nice rise if you can get it, but I guess his customer base will fall away instead. Same applies with any product, price yourself out of the current market and it is wasted investment. Than is an incredibly big rise 33%. That is substantially more than I was paying for a plasterer and he was a good one. There again if you can't do it yourself the sky is the limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 (edited) In Kent, close to the Greater London border, First Group are advertising for drivers for a new electric tram-bus service at £16.50 an hour so I think the odd-job man in Norfolk will be struggling (actually with a 48% uplift) unless he has a set of well-heeled clients - perhaps there is a discount for cash. Edited August 17 by Going Spare spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 17 Author Share Posted August 17 22 minutes ago, Going Spare said: In Kent, close to the Greater London border, First Group are advertising for drivers for a new electric tram-bus service at £16.50 an hour so I think the odd-job man in Norfolk will be struggling (actually with a 48% uplift) unless he has a set of well-heeled clients - perhaps there is a discount for cash. Generally for any work you would normally get a quote for the job, hourly rate is not such a good idea when getting someone to do something. I suspect in the odd job man's case he probably doesn't get that many jobs, so he is trying to cover his downtime and movement between jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 Brew Man is exactly right. I have Bluetooth control of all my Loco's that have a standard Decoder via the Hornby HM7040 Dongle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 17 Author Share Posted August 17 5 minutes ago, RDS said: Brew Man is exactly right. I have Bluetooth control of all my Loco's that have a standard Decoder via the Dongle. Of course you do but you must be using some sort of DCC controller, to enable you to use the dongle. So you could just use the DCC controller on its own. The disadvantage of the dongle if I have understood it properly, is you have to define the loco in two places, the bluetooth device and the DCC controller. Now if you take for instance the upgraded Digikeijs running with itrains you only define it in the Itrains app. Admittedly you need to pay a fee to use Itrains now, but is it not that much for a decent piece of software, less than the cost of a DCC decoder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 2 hours ago, ColinB said: Than is an incredibly big rise 33%. That is substantially more than I was paying for a plasterer and he was a good one. There again if you can't do it yourself the sky is the limit. That's true, except where comes to choosing who to spend your money with, there are are many skies to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 (edited) So with the new prices on 1 Sept released, I carefully examined all of era 1 models. There are 14 items in era 1. I add in Locomotion No.1 to this, making a total of 15 items. As I have all of their prices recorded, before and after, there are some things of note. The average price rise was 6.16%, over 15 items. The highest was 10.71% with several at 0.0%. Bee Edit: on 15 July, this was rumored to be a 20% price rise. Edited September 2 by What About The Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-380474 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 On 17/08/2024 at 09:49, moawkwrd said: As a newcomer to the hobby (relatively) I still haven't progressed past the ballasting stage on any of the layouts I've attempted. Even though I'm severely space limited, with the price increases of TT over the past 12-18 months I'm seriously considering selling all the rolling stock I have and sticking with cheap, old, used OO stuff instead. Yes I'll end up with a more compromised and compressed layout, but when I can get 2-3 decent OO locos for the price of one new TT loco and often 3 OO coaches for the price of 1 TT coach, waiting for the TT range to grow is becoming a more difficult sell I think as prices increase. But that's more an argument of used vs new rather than TT vs OO. And I am a total skinflint. Nearly new (or as new) off of e-bay can be found at half the Hornby new price. My most spectacular auction win was for the most recent iteration of the APT (magnetic couplings and 21 pin dcc ready engine etc) £477 Hornby website, £288 on auction. The engine and carriages were still in their tissue packaging- never been removed. Similarly old Bachmann smooth runners (no DCC plug) can be bought for £40 or less. A bit of dismantling and subsequent wiring to a plug fitted in the tender results in a very cost effective DCC engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted September 2 Author Share Posted September 2 I checked this morning and yes some items had not gone up, like the 8f, but the new B17 and West Country were up by 10%. There again I don't know how well the 8F is selling but it was overpriced compare to the Black 5 so perhaps that is why it didn't have a price increase. Seeing as most models are on preorder that don't have the price increase it is difficult to see what effect it will have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 The range of different rises or not, does reinforce the idea that a ‘cost review’ was carried out and pricing will be brought more in line with cost to produce plus a target margin rather than just the bizarre idea small items cost less than big ones. In time things can get wildly out of proportion. I know from conversations, that in TT:120 the 08 is actually one of the most expensive locos to produce, but was always priced significantly less than larger ones. Good news is, nothing like the wild speculation that people were kicking about only a few weeks ago 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 4 minutes ago, Rallymatt said: ........reinforce the idea that a ‘cost review’ was carried out and pricing will be brought more in line with cost to produce plus a target margin rather than just the bizarre idea small items cost less than big ones. Good news is, nothing like the wild speculation that people were kicking about only a few weeks ago 😁 I never did get the 'N is smaller than TT which is smaller than OO, so it has to be cheaper' argument put forward by so many over the years. Particularly when you realise or accept that the cost of the materials in each model is a relatively minor part of the overall cost of production. I believe the 'this model has more bells and whistles, more parts and takes longer to research, design and manufacture so it will be priced accordingly' a much more convincing argument. And at least now we have the facts of the various price changes rather than the somewhat doom-laden suggestions of the last few weeks. It also suggests Hornby are taking a much more professional approach than may have been the case previously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy tt Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 (edited) @Rallymattyes the TT 120 class 66 was £129 now £ 159 and with sound 214. Edited September 2 by happy tt TT120 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 The TT:120 66 has changed in specification dramatically since the original announcement. It’s gone from almost a ‘Railroad’ esque type loco to fully featured model. In the long term that’s is better for the scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy tt Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 (edited) @Rallymatti can wait to get my class 66s they sound so good not bad at the price i will pay for them . I was in at the start so 15% off +10% pts i want a class 50 in the gbrf i wish i had ordered one . i bet carpet mouth cant wait to get on you tube an bash hornby if they keep QC up on the models people will come back time after time cut out the bad QC a the factory please hornby Edited September 2 by happy tt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted September 2 Author Share Posted September 2 On 17/08/2024 at 09:34, ColinB said: To be quite honest I think they have been extremely let down. They were promised this reasonably priced system, it is now rapidly approaching the prices of OO. Then you have that Hornby has blown all its money so there be limited investment in it in the future by Hornby, so half the models won't appear. Hornby made a mistake by freezing out other manufacturers like Heljan, but then that is Hornby doing its usual protectionism. Their management would do well to read the story of how the Shipping Container came about. Nobody talks about HM7000, by all accounts there is a rather large team working on that as well. It is also looking like the non sound versions of the decoders are not going to materialise. This means that you can't have bluetooth control unless you fit all your locos with sound. (The previous sentence now crossed out, is incorrect. The Hornby Dongle HM7040, allows Bluetooth control of existing Decoders) Would have done better to upgrade their existing products. I have just read this again, for a start you comment is completely wrong. Sure you can control other locos with the Bluetooth dongle IF YOU HAVE AN EXISTING DCC CONTROLLER. Therefore you cannot control non bluetooth locos by the App alone. Perhaps next time it might be an idea to communicate with the original posters, for one thing it is good manners to do so and secondly, well I wont say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Exactly Colin - neither statement is completely accurate or completely false in isolation, both require further detail to prevent them from being misleading. It’s always better to include more detail & avoid assuming readers already know pertinent information! 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 @ColinBTo be fair the initial part of the post is also factually incorrect. No one made any price promises in respect of TT:120, when compared like for like models, there is a notable difference between OO and TT:120. You claim ‘half the locos won’t appear’ please advise which ones these are. Hornby didn’t freeze out Heljan, Heljan never had anything other than a 3D image showing TT:120 couplings in a press release. Hornby Hobbies PLC do not engage in protectionism practices, to do so would be illegal and that is a very serious allegation to make. The HM 7000 team is in fact very small but hard working. There is no evidence to suggest that non sound versions of HM 7000 decoders will never appear. All in all the post is very misleading and fundamentally inaccurate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted September 2 Author Share Posted September 2 4 minutes ago, Rallymatt said: @ColinBTo be fair the initial part of the post is also factually incorrect. No one made any price promises in respect of TT:120, when compared like for like models, there is a notable difference between OO and TT:120. You claim ‘half the locos won’t appear’ please advise which ones these are. Hornby didn’t freeze out Heljan, Heljan never had anything other than a 3D image showing TT:120 couplings in a press release. Hornby Hobbies PLC do not engage in protectionism practices, to do so would be illegal and that is a very serious allegation to make. The HM 7000 team is in fact very small but hard working. There is no evidence to suggest that non sound versions of HM 7000 decoders will never appear. All in all the post is very misleading and fundamentally inaccurate. I am not getting into an argument about what is going to happen or not. Hornby as a company is short of funds, anyone that has worked for a company in a similar position knows the score. Perhaps the non sound HM7000 decoders will appear who knows and they haven't yet. Decent software is incredibly expensive, decent software engineers cost a lot. Software is one thing I know an incredible amount about and looking at some of the faults that get reported remind me of my own experiences when I first started. Perhaps your software team are working very hard, I don't know, as my friend says (he was also embedded programmer) "you can't see it, you can't feel it", we used to equate it to doing a 3 D puzzle every day. I don't why you get so upset this is a forum we are supposed to discuss things. As to TT120, looking at the price rises it is becoming very obvious who they effect most, even down to the HM7000 they use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 The problem that you don’t appear to be dealing with Colin is that you DID state what was and wasn’t happening and going to happen. Either please provide evidence to support the claims you make or accept that your post is misleading and incorrect. There is not need for an argument, just facts to support your claims. Thank you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted September 2 Author Share Posted September 2 53 minutes ago, Rallymatt said: The problem that you don’t appear to be dealing with Colin is that you DID state what was and wasn’t happening and going to happen. Either please provide evidence to support the claims you make or accept that your post is misleading and incorrect. There is not need for an argument, just facts to support your claims. Thank you. Why, just to please your ego. Forget it. Nobody else is complaining so why you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Rallymatt speaks for many of us on this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts