gowest Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 Rob you would maybe know more about that than me as air craft must use some very good types of Loctite, when at Marconi we had a special department that you could call on to advise on locking adhesives now i would contact the supplier by email for help. i do have some Loctite 601 which i use a lot but before all these posh things came along it was just red varnish.a friend had an old 35 tractor which would eat cylinder liners, what was happening was the liner would tend to go up and down with the piston just a fraction but enough for it to break up and end up in the sump in small bitsand old boy that repaired tractors siad before you push the new cylinder down the block give it a good coat of paint. we did what the old chap siad and that was 11 years ago and that tractor is still going great.Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 How about silver soldering it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 KenIndeed we did have loads of ‘grades’ of what can be collectively known as Loctite, in the same fashion as Araldite is 2-part epoxy and a Hoover is a hoover. Each grade for a particular use and in some cases for different materials. You can go online to 3M, Loctite and other ‘glue’ manufacturers and consult their tables to find a suitable product that will withstand heat and steam yet come apart if and when necessary. Some are temporary, some are there forever. I made the mistake of using the wrong one on a car and broke the part trying to get it apart months later. I remember the paint fix for engine assembly and red lead was the stuff we used instead of the old Hematite gasket cement as it withstood the heat, maybe t was the ‘lead’, nowadays there are modern synthetic gaskets in a tube. Varnish was a good all round ‘tool’ as it was insulating as well as adhesive. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 Rogi think silver solder would be a permanent fix and not what I would like but having said that there is no reason why the piston should not be a fixed never to come off ever again as I see no real reason to dis mental these parts. As the A4 piston is a one piece assembly the A3 could have been made in the same way but I think they were looking for a long term design as the piston is made of bronze should it suffer damage or end up worn out it can be changed for a new one and bronze is a better bearing than stainless steel as in the A4 engine.ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 As I am covering the cylinders maybe I should mention that this engine was famous for having 4 cylinders 2 between the frames driving the front main drivers as many of you already know and I am not going to reproduce the inside set.As other railway companies were building 3 and 4 cylinder engine to increase power and performance so the Southern needed to look into a new express engine to add there fleet. The King Arthur which had performed well for a 2 cylinder engine might be a better engine if 2 more cylinders could be added for the same weight and boiler pressure.Also by fitting 4 cylinders they can be made smaller as the King Arthur class had the largest size cylinder which could accommodate within the SR loading gauge and 2 large cylinders give a larger hammer blow than a 4 cylinder as the reciprocating mass would less. The chief Civil Engineer at the time George Ellson carried out tests on the stress on bridges by different types of locomotives and showed clearly that the hammer blow was a lot less with 4 cylinders than 2 this is something the great western had found out years earlier.These 4 cylinders on this new engine were to be set at 135º to each other which give 8 beats in the exhaust rather than the usual 4 per one revolution of the wheels for 4 cylinders set to 180º It was hoped that this would reduce the hammer blow effect and giving smoother power to the track along with a more even draught to the fire so giving better steaming.The weight would also be set to 21½ tons per axle load but this was reduced to 20½ tons per axle. This then was the target that Mr Maunsell was going to build his new engine to but our engine needed the longer piston rods and my stainless steel had not turned up so I thought lets have a go with re machining the A4 piston into these new piston rods./media/tinymce_upload/8c68b04ddaf2ff1a185e19e5603dc9a1.jpgI thought wrongly may be to show part of my work shop this is a Smart and Brown Collet lathe which is a nice machine and is a finer and more accurate lathe than my other screw cutting lathe and a much better lathe to machine these very small parts so lets get going./media/tinymce_upload/267f665f684a3323e05a080446cf7216.JPGIn the picture is the A4 piston and rod ready to be machined /media/tinymce_upload/5d9d4a0ea023498bbe355dbfc9fafd41.jpgNow with the piston gone we have a longer piston rod./media/tinymce_upload/0d328f61a11b67eaa1eef970af0f9569.JPGNext is to drill a hole just under 1 mm Dia about 3 mm deep in the end of the piston rod./media/tinymce_upload/7121de2a834e01d670967ab3d0029f88.jpgAfter the drilling the last part is the threading and this needs great care as it is a very fine tap at 1.2 mm and should the tap snap off in the hole it will be hard to remove it and best to scrap it and start again./media/tinymce_upload/d575e69a0ed46272f1b9a043fd61bd55.jpgThis picture shows the 2 rods side by side the top one being the A3 piston rod the lower one the A4 piston rod after the machining operation./media/tinymce_upload/b35015a0dac151d2496b2d57e98030b8.jpgWith all the parts put together the new piston rod and piston, the cylinder back cover, the packing O ring andcompression gland nut all ready to fit in the cylinder and be connected to the connecting rod to the wheels if this all works it will not be long before the first test can be carried out with compressed air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 /media/tinymce_upload/258927e651901d0c3a0f0aa2d261f2a7.jpgFitting the pistons back in the cylinders its best to add a drop of thin oil before the pistons are Inserted also fit the 2 seals if they look to be old or worn then change them it‘s not worth all the agro to trying to get the best from the engine if these parts have seen better days after all this is where the energy is generated and these engines will not perform well if the small amounts of steam made in the supper heater is used up by steam leaks. I can remember in about 1964 seeing rusty steam engines with steam leaking from all the main front end gland packing points and with the connecting rod clanking away as they struggled to pull there heavy loads which just went to show what tolerant machines they were as a diesel engine will never fire up if the compression is low and there electrical system must also be in tip top condition.As for electrics they have to also have there electrics within the train in good order but also the infrastructure need replacing and servicing with no over head wires or sub staions the you have no train service.There must be many stories like the one about a diesel failure and an A4 was sent out to rescue the train and bring it in and the driver and fire man went full belt down the track and later the diesel driver said that’s the fastest that diesel had ever been this story might not be true but I like it.The true story might be that in the early days some of these poor old engines were kept in carriage siding just to supply steam heating before the diesel locos took the carriages into service for the morning rush./media/tinymce_upload/10268d915313dcb4adf947983e6af8e3.jpgPushing the piston into the cylinder then engaging the end cover./media/tinymce_upload/7cd166185809f53ef59082191f3f6ad6.jpgNever use pliers to tighten up the nut find the right size spanner or make one out of some scrap steel it only takes a few minutes and you will always have it./media/tinymce_upload/270e3ec4736d196f9d4b88ddf5511057.jpgWith every engine Hornby supplied it came with a nice little box spanner for these very small nuts and bolts. And here the con rod is being fixed in place to the piston rod./media/tinymce_upload/fc82e0c906407fd992563b98e794be73.jpgWith all the bits in place new brackets were made and screwed to the frames these will hold the valve gear and cross heads in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Good progress getting this far Ken without major hiccoughs. I was checking the shadows to see if the quartering was correct.(Only joking)Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 Rob if the quartering is wrong the engine will never run so live steamers out there always make a note when removing wheels that you get the wheels back in the right place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I was just poking a little fun at another post on the forums Ken.I know you will always get it right.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 Rob yes but a point worth pointing out just noticed that the last picture I posted has the end driver with half the spokes missing I'll have to change that wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 This guy has a fair supply of live steam spares including wheel sets for £15.http://www.acmodelsspares.co.uk/product-category/hornbyspares/livesteam/page/4/ And on the next page a valve unit and reverser shaft and a super heater and pressure relief valve assembly.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 24, 2017 Author Share Posted December 24, 2017 I have been looking on the net for one but the only one I came across was the very old one that Hornby made so if Hornby do make one then I'll have to buy it as I like to have an electric loco for every steam one I have I suppose we'll just have to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Bachmann did them Ken see here...http://www.semgonline.com/model/bach-lnvar.html And Hattons had a second hand one recently but now sold.http://www.hattons.co.uk/93223/Bachmann_Branchline_31_404_LN_Lord_Nelson_Class_36681_Locomotive_855_ROBERT_BLAKE_in_Maunsell_Green_Southern_R/StockDetail.aspx Most likely have to rename it if you can find one.RobPS have you got an electric version of your steam railmotor as I couldn't find a ready to run one on the internet only mentions of kit built ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 25, 2017 Author Share Posted December 25, 2017 Hi Rob didnt think of the opposition but as caiptean I don't like the split chassis as I have 3 tank engine and they all have had problems with wheels and axles as for the railmotor maybe that's one Hornby could consider for 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 25, 2017 Author Share Posted December 25, 2017 /media/tinymce_upload/01ff52a4b4daa86c8fb5c26b393f3a74.jpgOf cause the chassis and all its parts must fit into the body and a quick check shows things are not looking to bad maybe just a small amount of adjustment here and there and things should be ok still some work to do on the body like cleaning off the old solder and filling in gaps in the running boards and splashers./media/tinymce_upload/f67a1f44e273eae15c132acca067a229.jpgI have set the valve timing and run the engine on compressed air and all works fine will post some video time permitting.Not sure about the front bogie wheels just something I had in my spares box./media/tinymce_upload/d004ece2c91e2c2b1edf7c72c30f38e5.jpgMight have to move the oil filler screw as it sits to far back in the chimney but will do some steam runs first before changing any of that area.The electronics need to be thought about and tailor made maybe for this engine and not sure how much space is available under the cab floor which is the best place for these parts.One idea is the fire in the fire box./media/tinymce_upload/0437a814c630f57119eb43f85e9aaa02.jpgNew flashing light for fire boxBy using the Hornby idea but changing it to an LED flickering type LED I can keep the cab of the engine looking like the full size engine with out any electronics in this spaceHow it WorksFit 2 resistors one high than the other so that as the regulator is opened the contact runs along the copper track from one resistor to the other. In the position in the first drawing the resistor is high so the LED flickers very dimly while in the second drawing the contact connects to the lower resistor and the LED flashes much brighter this way an indication can be seen as to where the regulator is and when the engine might move off.Because the volts to operate the servo motor change from positive to negative a bridge rectifier is fitted between the switched resistors and the LED so the that the LED will always light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 25, 2017 Author Share Posted December 25, 2017 HAPPY CHRISTMAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 Didn’t someone say something about what did I use to lock the screw in the piston with? Well I set up the timing and ran the engine on compressed air and it went very well, it ran for over an hour so next would follow with a steam test I found an old A4 tender and made up some temporary connections and ran the engine round my track.All went well for about 20 minutes then it stopped dead what had gone wrong, a look over the engine once it was cool enough to handle I found the right hand side connecting rod was jamming and the wheels would not make a complete revolution, so I disconnected the connecting rod from the driving wheel and by pulling on the con rod it came clean out the cylinder back cover./media/tinymce_upload/6b99feb1eef913cd40f6fed857cbd3ce.jpgNow I know what was up with the engine and the words that others had said rang in my ears. After digging out the parts I cleaned them and added some Loctite 641 and put it altogether again then later ran some more steam tests and all was fine. Seeing this I must remember to do the same to the left hand Cylinder when I get to strip it down for painting but for now just carry on with the build./media/tinymce_upload/9f6c4d8552f1d3cacb50f78d97712bee.jpgSitting on the track with oil and water it takes about 10 minutes to get steam up but the longer you leave it the better it will go.I connected the Hornby electronics but not the red and green lights as this was not needed for the first test runs. It would be just like in 1926 when the first Lord Nelson rolled out the shed what would it be capable of would it for fill the engineers dream?Some video to follow…... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 just a short video to show the loco working click on the link below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 That runs nicely Ken and appears to be easily controllable.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 Just watched the video - it appears at times the cameraman was struggling to keep up! Execellent! 😀It is an express engine mind you hang a couple of coaches on it and things will slow down some saying that how fast would say an A4 or any express engine go flat out with no coaches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Brilliant, I could watch your work all day long. R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 I remember standing on the foot plates as a child with dad and this loco had no coaches or wagons just light engine back to Stratford and I asked the driver how fast the engine would go? With that he opened it up how much I don't know but as this was an 0-6-0 tank engine it seemed to be doing 100 mph and shook and swayed from side to side with rattling and clunking from all the different bit on the engine it felt as if it was going to leave the track at any moment It was scary but the old driver just looked down at me and smiled.this was a trip I made when my father took me on the railway from time to time to Temple Mills goods yard where he worked for some time as it was then the newest hump shunting goods yard in Europe and when he finished work would get a goods train or light engine back to Stratford then a train home to Brentwood. I think the goods yard has all gone now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 My dad and 2 elder brothers all worked in the mines. I never had the slightest inclination to go to work with them, so I joined the RAF instead.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 Hi Rob i took my kids down a mine in Wales some 30 years ago and you have to hand it to them miners it was tough and dirty work but if you think about it they called King Coal and with out it No lights No trains No ships No gas No heating No steel it goes on and on I take my hat off to these peoplei remember the chap telling us how children were used to open and shut doors to let the trucks through and keep the ventilation balanced these children sat in the darkness and were not given a candle and so we have the saying " Not worth a Light" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 /media/tinymce_upload/c040c21c026dc6e092dd068f785ba7a4.jpgAfter some chopping and hacking at the body the engine fits but as suspected the steam exhaust /oil filler is not in the right place in the chimney so some adjustments are needed which will mean blanking off the old filler hole and re drilling a new hole and threading it./media/tinymce_upload/f1a39de54a6696bc5d29783dcbedfe21.jpgAs you can see here its not in the centre or near enough to be of any good so my idea is to fit a valve as the oil filler which is easier to use than the Hornby idea as you do not need to unscrew it to fill the oil tank just push the needle of the syringe down the centre hole of the fitting and inject a measured amount of oil into the oil tank, I find this so much better and it means you can stop your engine and re fill the oil tank quicker and while in steam and then drive off once more like a formula 1 pit stop./media/tinymce_upload/a18464174c3927fcf13b2c92a5506afb.jpgWhile making these changers the safety valves and the fittings need to be made so will start these parts at the same time that way I can complete the engine and body and start the electronics and find a way to install them in a place away from water and heat and steam. Not sure how this will all work out also the new flashing light idea needs to be thought out and a test model built to prove the idea./media/tinymce_upload/addbaede9af3e432b4aa9102230307e6.jpgI do have a Hornby King Author class engine and a very nice little model it is it runs beautifully so smooth and I have fitted the Hornby 0 one chip in it from my old control system./media/tinymce_upload/a9d88c9a3144ffee20c1996ba71e7f45.jpgBy putting the King Author and Lord Nelson together you can see that they are almost the same length the Lord Nelson is just a bit longer. /media/tinymce_upload/360fcbf005c9da5d21ff8a18fb129d94.jpgAnd if you put all 3 engines together you can see that the A3 is the longest of the 3 just./media/tinymce_upload/b558ba75ce4751fc161a166eefaf4b7e.jpgLord Nelson with the Hornby King Author tender which we are getting closer to build as the loco gets to the end of its build.Following the steam runs the new electronics need installing and space is getting tight but one place that might be of use is under the cab floor. If I make the back of the boiler and the cab floor as a unit it could be remove to expose the electronic this could be serviced or replace should work on this part need to take place.The instillation might look something like this in the drawing below./media/tinymce_upload/3aa4f59426dd3006bf0de3bd7a96ee6a.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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