Is IPA really the answer to track cleaning?

[NormanQ4]

I've been an IPA user for around a year and I have to admit I have not been overly impressed with the results.

I know that many on here rave about it and that was my main motivation for moving from methylated spirit, which I had already moved to from dimpled hardboard.

 

I’m surprised that no one has commented on this web article previously indirectly linked to by Ian from Spain in which a technical chemical assessment of various solvents has been done.

I find the table on page 4 of the article a real eye opener especially with regard to IPA.

 

 

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/mrhpub.com/2019-05-may/online/index.html?page=9

 

This initial article links to another which explains the origins of the dreaded black gunk.

 

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/3229

 

I think a can of worms is about to be opened.

[walkingthedog]

Guys entitled to his opinion. I’ve use IPA for years and my trains run faultlessly and the wheels are spotless. You do need to make sure you use 99% IPA. 

[RDS]

Yes

[Fireman_Ian]

 Hi Norman,

 

Yes I was gobsmacked when I read that article, I have been using IPA for years and never have a running problem although I do get a lot of black gunk building up.

 

That said I run very heavy old Athearn and Bachmann US diesel locos (all DCC), they weigh a ton and have very good all-wheel pick-ups, they will still run on the dirtiest of rails.

 

I am going to trial non-polar cleaners but it will take some months to get results - watch this space!

 

Ian.

[Jimbo1707820979]

Guys entitled to his opinion. I’ve use IPA for years and my trains run faultlessly and the wheels are spotless. You do need to make sure you use 99% IPA. 

If it is purity you are seeking the best bet is to obtain an IPA used for laboratory analysis, where a spec. is labeled in ppm (parts per million) of impurities. Or even better "Electronic Grade" which has the highest spec.

If you have a friend or relative who works in a lab maybe you can get a free sample ! 😀  Pity I don't work for BDH Laboratory Chemicals or E. Merck any more, who were the market leaders.

The IPA sold by Maplins under the "Servisol" label lists no spec. merely stating it conforms to BS 1595 so I suspect it is what we termed "Pure" or "Industrial Grade" which has greater impurities than than the grades mentioned above. But maybe seeking higher purity would be just gilding the lily and make little difference.

[walkingthedog]

Ebay sell 99% proof so no problem.

[walkingthedog]

I don’t get a build up of black gunk. The answer is if you do, dump plastic wheels. 

[2e0dtoeric]

I gave up with that first link, it won't enlarge using ctrl and +, so I'm struggling to read the text - what there is of it - about two lines and a big advert on each page.

[The Doc]

Interesting article - anything that reduces the need to clean track and wheels sounds promising, but people need to beware that even if some non-polar solvents are better cleaners, they are also considerably more dangerous to use.  One of the solvents in the table quoted was carbon tetrachoride - banned from use in schools these days.  I wouldn't want to be using that in an indoor environment.

[NormanQ4]

@Ericm0hff

I gave up with that first link, it won't enlarge using ctrl and +, so I'm struggling to read the text - what there is of it - about two lines and a big advert on each page.

On that site just one single press on the scroll wheel does the trick to full screen and back again, then you've got to step back into the room two paces to avoid being overcome by the text.

I could be wrong but your comments seem to indicate that you may be approaching the subject rather negatively, however, now that you will be able to read it better perhaps you will express a more considered opinion. 😆

[NormanQ4]

@WTD

Guys entitled to his opinion. I’ve use IPA for years and my trains run faultlessly and the wheels are spotless.

This is the first time that I have seen an article that is at least based on some technical evidence and not just anecdotal evidence so I thought it was worth a run.

 

You do need to make sure you use 99% IPA.Ebay sell 99% proof so no problem.

I use 99% purity from ebay, I bought a 5 litre container.

 

I don’t get a build up of black gunk. The answer is if you do, dump plastic wheels. 

I don't have any plastic wheels, I changed what I had a couple of years ago.

[NormanQ4]

@Ericm0hff

I gave up with that first link, it won't enlarge using ctrl and +, so I'm struggling to read the text - what there is of it - about two lines and a big advert on each page.

I apologise, I didn't make it clear that you need to click the scroll wheel while the cursor is on the actual text not the ads.

[walkingthedog]

Norman I agree it is an interesting article. Seems everything you do on a model railway has been scientifically researched.  😀

[96RAF]

I have used auto-tranny fluid before for rail cleaning and it appeared to keep the track reliable longer, due I thought to the oil being electrically conductive. Now I know it is due to it being semi-polar and just keeping the rails in better condition maybe because it is listed as scientifically better at it than IPA which I normally use.

[2e0dtoeric]

@Norman - Didn't know about that trick with the scroll wheel! Having clicked, I can zoom in and out with it, as well. Thanks - we always have something else to learn!  😛

[RB51]

I use 99% purity from ebay, I bought a 5 litre container.

 

Ha-ha NormanQ4, so did I - about 5 years ago when I came back to the hobby and had no real idea what I was doing.

 

I think I've still got 4.75l left  😳

 

R-

[96RAF]

I use 99% purity from ebay, I bought a 5 litre container.

Ha-ha NormanQ4, so did I - about 5 years ago when I came back to the hobby and had no real idea what I was doing.

I think I've still got 4.75l left  😳

R-

 

I bought 500mL years ago and still have half of it left. The stuff goes a long way.

[Jimbo1707820979]

Norman, thanks very much for the links. The articles are extremely interesting, as are the comments from readers. Me, too, not over-impressed with IPA though it seems to get the job done TEMPORARILY, necessitating regular cleaning. 

Remember people were satisfied to believe the Earth was flat until science showed them otherwise, so the scientific approach to this nuisance problem bears some credence and an open mind is the best approach.

[walkingthedog]

I can never understand regular cleaning. As I said before I hardly ever clean my track. The occasional grubby mark and a major clean once a year at most.  If you need to clean all the time your stock must have dirty wheels and be over lubricated, that’s another thing I rarely do. 

 

In general locos and rolling stock needs to be kept clean. Not just the wheels but the bodies. Any dust on a loco will eventually find its way onto the track and get ground into the rails. 

[RB51]

You seem to be one of the lucky ones WTD. Perhaps it's a DCC -v- DC thing? R-

[walkingthedog]

Don’t think I’m lucky Roger. Why would track get so dirty that it needs cleaning on a very regular basis. The dirt has to be put there and the only thing that can put it there is wheels. Keep the wheels clean and the track will stay the same. When I had steel track it just used to become dirty constantly but modern track doesn’t seem to. I’m convinced that too much lubrication is the main reason.

 

I would be interested to know how often people lubricate their locos.

 

DCC v DC could be the cause. Perhaps the constant AC (ish) current causes the dirt to form but I very much doubt it. 

 

Maybe no plastic wheels or traction tyres is the answer. 

 

[RB51]

This is the section I found most interesting in the link given previously. This is from a metallurgist who spectroanalysed (sic) the crud.

----------

 

It has nothing to do with plastic wheels... sort of. The black crud is near 100% pure nickel oxide. Nickel (III) oxide to be specific. Saw the spectrograph output proving it. It is the natural oxidation of the nickel in the silver nickel plating on the track. Interestingly enough, it is deposited in such a manner as to suggest it was formed during an electrical arc. When viewed under extreme magnification it looks like random dots rather than a continuous film. The metallurgist explained to me it is likely microscopic irregularities on the tread of locomotive wheels and track face and/or common dust on the track is causing momentary loss of electrical contact resulting in nanosecond duration, nanometer long electrical arcs which cause the nickel to oxidize far faster than would naturally occur. One could never see this with the naked eye they would be so small. He is only guessing based on observation of the deposits but who am I to question his analysis? The oxide is also very tightly bound to the track. This explains why a Brite Boy is effective while wet wiping is not.

When asked about plastic wheels he postulates the plastic has nothing to with it. Rather, metal wheels due to their harder surface are far more effective at wearing away the oxide. The wheels aren't responsible for the problem, they are the removers of oxide and plastic is just a very poor remover.

------------

 

I have no idea as to whether the build up is more prevalent on DC operation than DCC. I'll  have to read some more.

 

R-

[walkingthedog]

I see he mentions dust, that’s what I said. In the past we have had pictures on here of locos smothered in dust. Put them on the track and the dust has to go somewhere. 

 

I don't agree about plastic wheels. I can remember peeling dirt off plastic wheels with the blade of a small screwdriver. It wasn’t on the track but on the wheels. 

 

He says about arcing. This was a problem with the Relco track cleaner. Yes it burnt the dirt away if a loco stopped but there was always a black film on the track when a loco was moving caused by the continuous slight arcing. 

[atom3624]

Totally agree with WTG's comments on plastic wheels.

 

I've peeled off compacted oily dirt off pkastic wheels loads of times and fairly certain I hadn't over-oiled anything - far less with metal tyred / metal wheels.

 

Al.

[walkingthedog]

Think I’ll buy a goat.