Seperating tender from engine.

[roythegrass]

I have a Hornby clan line loco which came in the R1073 Venice Simplon Orient Express. I'm trying to separate the tender from the engine to put back in the box for selling. I must have connected the two when purchased but now can't figure out how to separate the two with the wire connected. Help!

(Photo for reference - not my loco.)

[HornbyinNC]

Although I don't have this particular locomotive, I do have many from the period it was built.

At that time, Hornby used a plug-in wire connection to the tender, which once plugged in, is not easy to remove and hence the models become semi-permanently coupled.

Should that be the issue with yours, they can be pried apart, very carefully using a watchmakers screw driver.

Hornby do offer a special tool; essentially a pair of specialty tweezers that do the job with less risk of damage. They remain available through stockists, as well as on this web-site as part no. X6468.

Yes, I have a pair and they do the job quite adequately.

https://uk.hornby.com/products/extractor-tool-steam-loco-tender-plug-x6468

[mjb1961]

Hi,,I had this set some years ago and although it was a dcc fitted loco I am absolutely sure it did not have a 4 pin plug that you are talking about, if you have a close look at the stock photo you have posted you can't see any wire so someone has either done some modifications or swapped a chassis ,perhaps you could post a photo of your loco for us to see.

[Bulleidboy]

If all is correct, R1073 was a DCC set containing a Select DCC Controller, so the loco is DCC, but the decoder was in the loco, not the tender - the loco came "DCC Fitted".

I have two or three of these, I will have a quick look and report back, but I'm pretty sure there is not the white plug in the tender base. The loco should just unhook from the draw-bar.

PS: I have now checked and the connection is the normal peg on the tender going through the hole in the draw-bar, with the bronze(?) fingers taking power from the tender wheel pick-ups. No wire/plug.

If the Op. has a wire connection with a plug, you would have to assume the loco is not the original or has been modified.

[atom3624]

Looking at the photo, it looks like the peg and fingers connection.

CAREFULLY tilt slightly so it appears the junction of loco and tender is higher than front of loco / back of tender, then gently pull the tender UP, away from the locomotive to separate.

Al.

[mjb1961]

Atom ,the photo is a stock photo and not a photo of his model, like I said if its got a 4 pin plug then it is not the original loco for the set.

[ColinB]

It could be like I did with all of mine. The space available for the decoder is very limited and on one of these locos I actually broke the valve gear trying to juggle the wires while putting the whole lot back together. So I generally move the DCC decoder to the tender and rewire the electrics so the loco and tender are connected together by the 4 pin lead. Usually I also remove the pin that engages with the drawbar and replace it with a retained nut insert so that the tender and loco are permanently connected together to avoid undue stress on the 4 way wire. So the previous owner may have done the same.

[ColinB]

I forgot to add. A photo would be very useful in this case.

[atom3624]

Pity.

If you've got those horrible little white plugs, then be very careful - I hate them!

The Hornby 'tool' helps once you've carefully lifted the plug slightly each side - normally with very careful use of a blade screwdriver.

Al.

[roythegrass]

Thanks folks.

I'll add a photo in the next couple of days.

[roythegrass]

Here are the photos. Although no clear in the photos there IS a wire between the engine and tender with no obvious means of disconnecting.

[RDS]

Moderators Note:

@roythegrass. Your pictures need to be approved before they appear on the Forum.

There is no need to post again.

I have deleted the duplicate (also blurred) picture you posted.

[Going Spare]

As expected, the loco has the electrical drawbar with, I think, even at least one of the two upper contacts still in place, so there is in theory no need for a wired connection. Are you able to separate the loco drawbar from the tender pin to give a larger gap so that the wire can be revealed?

[roythegrass]

Thanks folks.

Hands up, I was wrong! This evening I tried again and the engine and tender have separated.

The loco was new seven years ago but never used so the connection was fairly stiff and I was reluctant to apply too much pressure when separating. And there's no wire connecting the two - I really must buy some new glasses!

Thanks for the help.

[Kettering Junction]

I have this type of connection on my Pete Waterman Princess Elizabeth. I’m having a job removing it while I service the engine. Is the plug needed for power? Or can I get rid of it?

[atom3624]

That issue / period of locomotive is:

1. Locomotive powered.
2. Locomotive has its own pickups - can run without being connected to the tender.
3. Tender has additional pickups which assist when negotiating 'long dead spots' like express points.
4. Sometimes those fingers on the upper part of the drawbar can be too close, and short out.
5. Separation, as you've found, is easy, gently lift off the tender from the locomotive.

Al.

[Fishmanoz]

Al’s reply is consistent with my initial research but doesn’t explain the plug mentioned as none are needed with this arrangement.

KJ, can you please tell us where the cable which is attached to the plug comes from, where it plugs to and how many wires/pins in the plug are there?

[Bulleidboy]

One thing you have to be careful of with Hornby Rebuilt Merchant Navy Class loco's, especially if you have a large number, and swap tenders around. I found that doing this swap, the polarity from the tender pick-ups can be the opposite to that on the loco. It took me a wile to work out having done a tender swap, as to why there was a short as soon as the loco was placed on the track. Very easily rectified.

[Kettering Junction]

4 wires in total. Still runs without the tender.

[LTSR_NSE]

As others have said the ‘plug’/drawbar is used to electrically connect loco & tender. If you remove it (although the loco will still run) you waste all of the pick-up potential of the tender wheels. Your loco will electrically become an 0-6-0 and therefore be more susceptible to dirty track, voltage drops etc. Why would you want that?

[Going Spare]

This is proving to be a very interesting scenario. Please correct me if I am having a 'senior moment' but I have, until now, taken the presence of a 4-pin plug between loco and tender to indicate that there is a decoder socket in the tender and that two of the wires are taking electricity from the loco pick-ups to the decoder socket (where they combine with wires from the tender pick-ups) and the other two wires are returning the electricity from the decoder socket to the motor. If the tender is not present, the loco can not run because there is no electrical feed direct to its motor (as per DCC requirements).

The situation is made more interesting because Service Sheet 362B covering the Pete Waterman Princess Elizabeth R2823 states that it has the decoder socket on the loco chassis and is fitted with a sprung electrical drawbar and tender pin arrangement rather than a plug and socket, in which case the loco would run without its tender, the drawbar contacts purely bringing additional feeds from the tender pick-ups to the decoder socket.

[atom3624]

Hi GS, I was just scanning through this one, and got a little confused as well.

OP was RTG with the Merchant Navy, who supplied a 'reference photo' stating it was not his.

Later on KJ mentioned the Princess Royal and implied a 4-wire plug - as you state normally relating to the DCC socket in the tender, but the Service Sheet stated the same, older style pin and fingers contact drawbar between the locomotive and tender.

KJ (Kettering Junction) could you please confirm your Princess has a 4-wire plug?

I only run DC and have by-passed this plug on occasion to permit the locomotive to run on it's own, but if yours does have the 4-wire plastic plug, then it should not run unless connected to the tender.

Al.