LTSR_NSE Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Now that Hornby have announced they will produce a second class coach (in yet another Rocket train pack) there will be another coach type that owners of existing packs will want to purchase separately.I realise that only producing these items in train packs encourages those who can afford to, to spend more on the Rocket locomotives. But surely there would be more total sales of the L&MR range if all the wagons/coaches were available individually?Hornby (and other manufacturers) have previously stated that EMUs & DMUs are far less popular because of the expense of having to be purchased together as a pack.Virtually all of the Era 2+ locomotives & rolling stock are available as individual items - are there really so few pioneer enthusiasts that they cannot be treated similarly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_sage Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Totally agree, I have the "original" new rocket. I have the carriages that came with that and the wagon pack. I'd love to add the mail coach and the new covered one to my collection, but I am not going to buy two more rocket packs. Hopefully we will see some movement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyctus1707822364 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 I have the new Rocket and I would purchase additional wagons and coaches if available as single items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 I've cross referenced all the 1st class carriages by name, and provide the appropriate Hornby product reference.Booth Early 1st Class R30090Despatch R346, R621, R796, R3809Experience R621, R796, R3809, R30232Globe R3810, R40357Huskisson R40371, R30090Renown R3810Royal Mail R3956Times R621, R796, R3809, R40372Traveller R30232, R30090Treasurer R3956Wellington R3810, R40357I would appreciate being notified of any errors.EDIT: 2 "L" s in Traveller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 The previous message details the Hornby selection 1st class carriages.This post will provide information regarding actual known LMR 1st class carriages. If the carriage is illustrated in a period illustration or mentioned in writing, it becomes part of this list.Adelaide (Queen)ArielAuroraAuxiliumBooth Early 1st Class*Chinese Liverpool**ClarenceConservativeCroxtethDelightDespatchDuchess of KentEarl of WiltonExperienceFair TraderFlyGlobeGreyhoundHarlequinHuskissonLacey & Allen Carriage***LarkLondonLord DerbyMarquis of StaffordMelbourneReformerRoyal Mail****Sir Robert PeelSovereignStanleySylphTimesTravellerTreasurerVelocipedeVictoryWellingtonWilliam (King/Royal)Zephyra÷÷÷÷÷Which name isn't on this list?Renown R3810Acceptable, as no preserved list exists. Renown could have existed, so it is fine to have a bit of artistic license÷÷÷÷÷*1st class on the basis that sprung buffers were present in imagery and per Booth, sprung buffers only present on first class**1st class based on color of carriage, glazed windows and shown coupled to nominal first class in Ackerman prints***This is the very strange horse carriage body mounted to a railway undercarriage, as shown by Booth. Mr. Anthony Dawson states that this is a "4 inside" carriage, just as Royal Mail was 4 inside. The premium for 4 inside, vs 6 inside seating was 1 shilling.****4 inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted January 21, 2023 Author Share Posted January 21, 2023 @bee all of the detail regarding the L&MR rolling stock you are providing to various threads is fascinating!I’m unsure why you believe the carriage (which you have named ‘Lacey & Allen’) is so “strange”? It is simply a coach-built body on a railway undercarriage. That description exactly applies to Queen Adelaide’s carriage and the initial L&MR first class carriages too.Are you referring to the fact that the body appears to be ill-matched with the undercarriage compared with the others? Or have I misunderstood your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 @LT&SR_NSEThe nominal 1st class carriage seats 6 inside each compartment in two facing rows. There are 3 compartments. They all look about like thisCall it the standard design. This seating arrangement was termed "six inside". The passengers show the seating arrangement.Then we come to the outliers.The LMR did not have many of the Royal Mail carriages. Not only was the train a pure express, the seating was "four inside". Given the carriages were of relatively the same width, the difference can be compared to business vs first class seating on airlines.Re: Lacey & Allen (L&A) While researching the actual carriage list, I found that Mr. Anthony Dawson had covered L&A in his recent book. L&A were the carriage makers who created it, and Henry Booth had it illustrated for his book, published in 1830. Mr. Dawson states 4 inside. I'm not so certain, it could be 6 inside. Ackermann's period prints include a pictorial record of that carriage, but it is very much derivative of Booth. There are no other images I am aware of. L&A must have seemed very familiar to the upper crust in Liverpool and Manchester. It is a horse carriage after all. The standard carriage was the strange one!! Yet 200 years on, with literally dozens of images to examine, the strange one is the L&A. Given Hornby's recent history, the L&A will appear, but only in a train pack!I'm happy you are enjoying the details. This is a significant part of my modeling experience and am simply sharing!Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 I would hasten to add:The 1st class carriage Adelaide noted above was of the standard design. 6 inside. Yellow.In Hornby R40372, it is Queen Adelaide's personal carriage. Not to be confused with the standard 1st class carriage run on the LMR.May I say that R40372 was in my basket within 10 minutes after range launch. That was the easiest pick ever!! The price for that one carriage, if you do the maths, is much higher than any of the others. I hope that portends a match to Her Majesty's actual carriage in the museum, and a highly detailed one at that.I do not know that Queen Adelaide's personal carriage ever traveled on the LMR, but it is a period carriage and it's my layout!!BeeEdit: The LMR Queen Adelaide eponymous carriage was NOT standard!! Please read about it here:LMR Queen Adelaide carriage; Not to be confused with Her Majesty's Saloon :: Hornby Hobbies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted January 22, 2023 Author Share Posted January 22, 2023 Whilst my preference is for individual items, I would willingly purchase the following as two coach packs (no locomotive) if that is the only viable way for Hornby to produce them:• First Class Specials pack - ‘Lacey & Allen’, ‘Chinese Liverpool’, Royal Mail & Queen Adelaide’s carriage• Second Class pack - 3x ‘Booth design’ (as in R30090)(I understand @Bee’s reasoning for believing this design to be closer to First Class - however considering the other second class designs depicted appear to offer minimal structural roof support - I wonder if this is simply a OO scale compromise?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 @LT&SR_NSEThe Booth illustrated carriage could very well be 2nd class instead of first. To use American slang, I'm not about to die on that hill!CheersBee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 Thanks Hornby (Santa/Fairy/Bunny etc.) Preorders duly placed with chosen retailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbo2 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Thanks Hornby (Santa/Fairy/Bunny etc.) Preorders duly placed with chosen retailer. Your wish was granted grinning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Perhaps next year we can have a track system, fishbelly rail and stone block sleepering. Just an idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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