kered43 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I have purchased 18 TXS Decoders and out of them I have 2 that do not work. The thing is that even after spending £1000 on these I still have to pay the postage to return them for a replacement. I do expect that there are going to be the odd decoder here and there that do not work. But 2 out of 18 is crazy . I had another 8 delivered this morning and now I have to wait until Monday before I ring the shop up and tell them I have found another decoder that is faulty I feel embarrassed to ring. Is anybody else having problems with faulty Decoders? Thanks for the rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 What is/are the fault(s)? are there different issues? or are they just DOA? (I used to order batches of 50 PCs annually for my employer & I could virtually guarantee to receive at least 2 DOAs regardless of supplier/manufacturer - so it definitely happens, but 3 out of 26 sounds quite a high failure rate.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kered43 Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 3 hours ago, LTSR_NSE said: What is/are the fault(s)? are there different issues? or are they just DOA? (I used to order batches of 50 PCs annually for my employer & I could virtually guarantee to receive at least 2 DOAs regardless of supplier/manufacturer - so it definitely happens, but 3 out of 26 sounds quite a high failure rate.) I have had one with a wire dethatched and one powered on then died on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I had 1 overheat from the dozen I have and I am now convinced that is a loco fault. The loco sits on a shelf awaiting investigation. Despite being very hot the decoder was still working when returned. Did you ask customer serVices if they would either refund your postage or send you a label to return the faulty goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kered43 Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 13 minutes ago, 96RAF said: I had 1 overheat from the dozen I have and I am now convinced that is a loco fault. The loco sits on a shelf awaiting investigation. Despite being very hot the decoder was still working when returned. Did you ask customer serVices if they would either refund your postage or send you a label to return the faulty goods. I was just told by the shop to send it back with proof of postage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 15 minutes ago, kered43 said: I was just told by the shop to send it back with proof of postage. That wasn't what I said. If you don't ask them to cover costs, you don't get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moccasin Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) Hornby only seem to offer to cover costs of returns for goods bought direct from the website. Might be too late to ask Hornby Customer Services now, but still worth a try https://support.hornby.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360014266199-How-do-I-return-a-product-within-the-UK. Maybe call them rather than the shop to sort out the third faulty decoder? Edited February 25 by Moccasin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) Covered by sale of goods act. You can find the precise details on .gov Essentially, if you buy goods (in person or mail order) and they turn out to be defective you are entitled to a refund/repair/replacement (time can dictate which) and the cost of returning the item. Some companies automatically issue return labels to cover return postage but it’s always advisable to ask how you will recover the return postage. Most smaller businesses like it if you ask for a credit note because they know you are coming back and will buy from them again. Failure on ICs is incredibly high fortunately they often get spotted before leaving the factory. Edited February 25 by Rallymatt Re-worded for better reading 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Infant mortality of electronics can be very high and typically follows the bath tub graph of failure. High failure dropping off rapidly to settle at the expected failure in service followed by increasing failures towards end of life.. Some places will burn in electronics goods, but these HM7K decoders will at least spend some time live whilst the default profile is factory loaded and a standard serviceability test carried out, which is likely more than some decoders get. If interested then have a read of this . . . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Allen Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Out of 5 I have bought 4 have gone faulty. One burnt out melting the socket of the loco, 3 have stopped working whilst locos were running. I'm seriously thinking of going back to DC. Whilst sound is nice it isn't necessary . Not Happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 As mentioned in another thread where you raised this, I would seriously be checking all the electrical set up on layout, a concentration of failures is usually indicative of another fault. AFAIK, all the N18 decoders are from the original shipped batch, so if there were underlying issues, failures would be more widespread although as RAF points out not unknown in electronic components. Appreciate this is not ideal for you but sure it can all be sorted either way 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 What are you using to power your layout Tim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Allen Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Fishmanoz said: What are you using to power your layout Tim? the TT digital track, PSU > track connector and the 4 amp PSU, all Hornby. I went through the power and part numbers with tech support. They said it should all be ok. Edited March 2 by Tim Allen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Sure looks that way and one possibility eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Are you taking basic electrostatic precautions when handling the decoders. Do you have nylon carpets in the room or are you wearing clothes prone to generating static. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I doubt if it is anything you are doing wrong otherwise all the others would eventually die. These are a relatively new device so it could be the normal failure rate. I doubt it is static, you would be incredibly unlucky for this to happen. It is probably just the normal failure rate, it is a new product with new processes. I have had one failure in the four I have bought so far, for TTS I think it was higher but I bought more of those. Model railway electronics seems to be a minefield, more so than the field I worked in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritInVanCA Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 25/02/2024 at 00:16, 96RAF said: I had 1 overheat from the dozen I have and I am now convinced that is a loco fault. The loco sits on a shelf awaiting investigation. Despite being very hot the decoder was still working when returned. Did you ask customer serVices if they would either refund your postage or send you a label to return the faulty goods. I just returned 1 of 2 because it overheated and then caused an overload. It had been fine for 5 months all be it with limited use. I hope it’s not the loco as it was a brand new DCC fitted one (TT120 A3). The loco seems fine on analog. The note I got from customer service said they would refund postage and packing up to £15. Directly to your bank account for UK customers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 23 hours ago, Tim Allen said: Out of 5 I have bought 4 have gone faulty. One burnt out melting the socket of the loco, 3 have stopped working whilst locos were running. I'm seriously thinking of going back to DC. Whilst sound is nice it isn't necessary . Not Happy. That is very worrying, I had that issue with a couple of TTS decoders I just put it down to the fact I heat shrinked them to stop them shorting. Since then I have tended to either loosely cover them or insulate where they are going. Trouble is every one jumps down the road that it is the loco, I recently bought a sound decoder off a different supplier, when I got it, it kept failing in one direction, the supplier kept saying it my setup even though I pointed out to him that it had happily been running with a Zimo decoder. In the end I just gave up and put it down to a bad experience. In the case of HM7000 I imagine it is a case of trying to make sure there is some airflow round it, difficult if you have squeezed it in. I did notice when I was looking at the pcb things like surface mount diodes used for bridge rectification were a lot smaller than fitted to the likes of Zimo and LokSound decoders, so perhaps keeping them cool is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Allen Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 19 hours ago, 96RAF said: Are you taking basic electrostatic precautions when handling the decoders. Do you have nylon carpets in the room or are you wearing clothes prone to generating static. Yes, I used to build servers and pcs years ago so got in the habit about ESD. I fitted in the kitchen which is stone floor tiles, the table was wooden. These were not DOA, they were running and the locos just stopped. One kept cutting out then starting again whilst on a long straight. The Mallard was the first to be fitted and works perfectly. It’s just the since. Edited March 3 by Tim Allen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 16 minutes ago, Tim Allen said: Yes, I used to build servers and pcs years ago so got in the habit about ESD. I fitted in the kitchen which is stone floor tiles, the table was wooden. These were not DOA, they were running and the locos just stopped. One kept cutting out then starting again whilst on a long straight. The Mallard was the first to be fitted and works perfectly. It’s just the since. When I first started on DCC a few years ago I was really surprised how easily these devices fail. I worked on microprocessor development as my job. Other than one make of micro which you just looked at it and died (I am sure someone got something out of that deal) most were pretty robust. With the DCC I found a certain make seemed to be more robust than all the others. If you read my posts you will know which one. All the others just seemed to die for no apparent reason, a lot I suspect, the current rating was way below that stated in the specification. Often I would just be running the loco up and down and it would start to smoke followed by the usual short circuit and this was on a metre of track so no transmission line issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Last Ninja Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 8 minutes ago, Tim Allen said: Yes, I used to build servers and pcs years ago so got in the habit about ESD. I fitted in the kitchen which is stone floor tiles, the table was wooden. These were not DOA, they were running and the locos just stopped. One kept cutting out then starting again whilst on a long straight. The Mallard was the first to be fitted and works perfectly. It’s just the since. Hi Tim, Just so you know, you are not alone. I have now purchased 105 HM7000 decoders since their launch last April, some of which were factory-fitted locos, like the latest 9F and KC111 Class 66 locos. No issues with factory-fitted HM7000 chips. However, on the ones I have fitted, I have had tech support replace nine of them. So, that's a statistic of just under one in ten, the same statistic you have. I understand that you have worked in tech, building servers, so you probably know all this so I do apologise if I'm stating the obvious. However, I do think that 96RAF is correct in suggesting that some could be blown by static, and another issue I believe is related to the magnet on the speaker being close to the PCB board of the decoder in some tight tenders. I now place spare plastic ccutoutsfrom the remaining speakers in the decoder kits on the magnets with silicone glue and then seal them with anti-magnetic tape. Another important step I take is to cover the PCB board with anti-static/electric thermal transfer tape. I have stopped using electrical tape as it seems not to dissipate the heat as well, but again, these are all guesses. The thermal tape I use allows for high temperatures if the chips get hot and leave some space on the board edge for the heat to escape from. A lot of tenders have metal weights in so this ensures no shorting of the board if it touches anything metal and blows the decoder. It does seem like some of the first batches of decoders manufactured were not as reliable, as I have had no issues in the last six months, but then again, it could all be one batch and how I handle them. I do however know that as I am more experienced now in the fitting of decoders, I have had no issues. How many were blown down to me is not known. However, Hornby does replace them if you have issues and supports all HM7000 decoders this way. A great customer service from the team at Hornby. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I agree, customer support is very good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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