Too Tall Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Hi a couple of questions I hope someone can help me with: 1. Is the new release black 5 significantly different to the 2015 model in the Going Home pack ? 2. Could someone let me know the Hornby R numbers for the high detail LMS Stanier coaches to match the ones in the set should I wish to extend the train ? Thanks 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 (edited) I've noticed the valvegear has changed. For the bodies already established, I've not seen any significant difference, but the running plate should now be metal (metal boiler now?). With such a substantial 'retool' Hornby seem to be replacing their previous 5-pole, no flywheel motors with 5-pole with flywheel motors - Merchant Navy, Coronation, Princess Royal to name a few. Al. Edited April 18 by atom3624 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Whether they are an exact match you will have to decide for yourself but other super-detail LMS coaches listed in Pat Hammond's British Model Trains catalogue are: 1st - R4230/A/B and in train packs R2659 & R2985; 3rd - R4231/A/B and in train packs R2659 (2), R2907 & R2985; brake 3rd - R4232/A/B and in train packs R2907 & R2985. Also, there are the Airfix-designed slightly less well detailed 12-wheel dining car R4095/A-E/G, the bogie passenger brake/parcels van R4233/A/B and the 4-wheel CCT van R6640/A. The catalogue has not been published since 2013 so others may have information regarding more recent releases. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 (edited) Cheers guys, with the numbers provided I have located some of the same series coaches, and although you can see the nicer detail on the new release loco, I actually think I prefer the older one as its less garish ! it also seems the older ones are superb runners from the you tube channels I found so I am sorely tempted ! Edited April 18 by Too Tall typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Unable to edit my first post but have found reference in the 2020 catalogue to R4802 dining car, R4803 1st, R4805 brake 3rd (which may mean R4804 was another 3rd), plus R4843 passenger brake and R6799 horse box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJN Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 My Black 5 arrived yesterday - direct from Hornby. It has some nicely painted pipework and, it would seem, a die cast running plate. The boiler feels plastic. Weight of loco: 261 gms Tender : 101gms Haven't looked inside the tender to learn why it is comparatively heavy. For comparison with my other Hornby Mixed traffic 4-6-0: GWR Grange loco: 215gms Tender: 73gms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 A die cast running plate would certainly help the weight, and could be a good upgrade, would have thought they would list that as a feature ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Sounds like the original tooling is generally used in the tender - perhaps the upper moulding has been updated? I say this as the Stanier tenders - Scots, 8F, 5MT - always had a very 'meaty' metal weight in them. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJN Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Recently got a second-hand 8F from eBay 🤔 . Haven't tested it yet, but could do the weigh-in and then post comparison photos of the two tenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Have they modified the connection between loco and tender? If they have that would explain some of the differences. A modern 8F/Black Five will have a different tender weight to that in an old 8F as it contains the DCC socket. On an old model it is just a rectangular lump, the modern one is a lot more complicated, the same as fitted to late Scots/Duchess and Princess tenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesXRN Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 31 minutes ago, ColinB said: Have they modified the connection between loco and tender? If they have that would explain some of the differences. A modern 8F/Black Five will have a different tender weight to that in an old 8F as it contains the DCC socket. On an old model it is just a rectangular lump, the modern one is a lot more complicated, the same as fitted to late Scots/Duchess and Princess tenders. I watched a video on the tube yesterday and yes, it has the new loco to tender connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 Finally bit the bullet today and ordered an alleged BNIB Going home set for less than the cost of the new tooled Black 5. Having recently received a GWR 61xx Prairie of the same manufacturing era, and being perfectly happy with the detail on that, 3 coaches with nem pockets and the older black 5 seemed the better deal for me as I still have a lot to get ! I also got a SH 3rd (described as mint) and a NIB 1st to add to it, I guess I should get some track to run them on once I have finalised my board sizes 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Well, everyone's favourite reviewer has produced one of the new Black 5. Draw your own conclusions - don't think his comments were unjustified considering his findings. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Somebody got the 'none Sam's Trains quality' model .... Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritInVanCA Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 I’ve seen four YouTube reviews and only one that had issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Fred Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) Perhaps that shows there was only one dud out of the four Edited April 21 by Aussie Fred to make more sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritInVanCA Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 8 hours ago, Aussie Fred said: Perhaps that shows there was only one dud out of the four Yep. That was the point I was making. Shame it was the YouTuber with the biggest audience who got the dud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 It's a pretty high-profile model 'though - should be more effort to avoid so many combined problems - on-in-four or not. There's obviously a lot of development from the previous 'super detailed' issue, with many / most original ideas still maintained. The valvegear is obviously different, particularly by the cylinders / sliders. The running plate is an obvious potential improvement - tempering / cooling should not have warped it, so this was a pity as well. Put simply, the Black 5, with all 842 full scale iterations, has long been one of my favourites, and most memorable from childhood, but the video has certainly calmed thoughts of considering a purchase. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted April 21 Author Share Posted April 21 My going home set arrived, and was indeed new sealed and mint. It did have an issue .. no pickup working on the loco wheels (tenders were fine). After taking the loco apart to find no issue, I then found culprit in the tender ... a wire had broken off the 8 pin board, a quick re-solder and all is well 😊 I am perfectly happy with the older model ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJN Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 So it turned out that an old "Super detailed" 8F tender is a bit heavier than the the ,fairly weighty, new Black 5 one. Well it does contain a weight. Coal load was missing though 😐 (beware of eBay vendor using term "Lovely Loco"). As for the Black 5 , I now doubt its die-cast credentials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_redding Posted Saturday at 08:28 Share Posted Saturday at 08:28 On 21/04/2024 at 17:53, atom3624 said: It's a pretty high-profile model 'though - should be more effort to avoid so many combined problems - on-in-four or not. There's obviously a lot of development from the previous 'super detailed' issue, with many / most original ideas still maintained. The valvegear is obviously different, particularly by the cylinders / sliders. The running plate is an obvious potential improvement - tempering / cooling should not have warped it, so this was a pity as well. Put simply, the Black 5, with all 842 full scale iterations, has long been one of my favourites, and most memorable from childhood, but the video has certainly calmed thoughts of considering a purchase. Al. Hmmm...not so sure. Here is the second video I saw of the loco drive failing. Go to 12:30 Its not great is it? I have the full sound/steam version on order and TBH this isnt inspiring confidence. What dos Hornby say about the connection and bent running plate issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesXRN Posted Saturday at 11:48 Share Posted Saturday at 11:48 As the man said, sad & frustrating, especially as he is way over the pond in Canada. I hope my smoke Black 5 is perfect when it arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted Saturday at 13:06 Share Posted Saturday at 13:06 There seems to be a common problem with the tender socket for the loco / tender connector. Sam used his P2 2007 tender to test his locomotive. This implies an inherent problem with the electronics in the tenders - might be a simple fix - snagged wire in 'routine production' - which should have been picked up - no pun intended! - prior to despatch! Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loewietje Posted Saturday at 13:22 Share Posted Saturday at 13:22 The new type connections on both my P2’s and both my A1’s work perfect. Is the Black 5 from a different factory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted Saturday at 15:16 Share Posted Saturday at 15:16 It does seem to be a 'common denominator' with the Black 5, and never mentioned on other models using 'the same' connection. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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