front bogies derailing on modern locos

[Matt123x]

@Matt123x are you using Hornby Points, Peco set-track points or Peco Streamline points?

 

 

I'm using Hornby points. 

[walkingthedog]

I found the same with some of my Dapol wagons, the solution was to replace the wheels with Hornby wheels

 

 

Yes I've done that and it works. 

[Nick_]

Strange isn't it, but it does fix the problem.

Comparing the wheels by eye I can't see any difference but who knows...

[RB51]

I'll have to give that a go on my Dapol wagons - hadn't thought of that and just checked the B2B, which is fine. R-

[96RAF]

I only have one Dapol wagon, a 20T tank built from a cheapie kit and that came with plastic and metal wheel sets.

With the metal wheels fitted and a bit of weight added to the tank it runs nicely, although I have had to fiddle about with the couplings to get them to line up and play nicely with other makes of truck.

[walkingthedog]

That'll be one of the old Airfix kits. It's their RTR wagons that give me a problem until I change the wheels. 

[JohanC]

Despite my best efforts my track laying skills are only B- !! However all my Hormby locos seem to cope. For Chrsitmas I bought myself a new Duchess of Atholl (R3553) and I have had derailing problems from the start.

I've read all the posts on here and decided to have a go at the front bogie which was the cause of the problem. I bent the main support bar down towards the track, thus allowing the bogie to drop lower onto the track where there is any uneveness. This seems to have done the trick. 

Thanks to all contributors for helping me through this. John

[96RAF]

Good to have your feedback John.

[flyingfox4475]

I use to have a problem that most of my Hornby a1 and a3 fleet would derail on points. having checked back to back measurement were ok and made sure the points were level. I found the solution was to add 3 small metal washer to the bogie and remove the spring. This gave the bogie much needed weight to stop it derailing. The A4 were never a problem so have not had to do it to them. My P2 only derails on one set of points but as it is in the mpd it need to go slowly which solved the problem.. 

[The Shunter]

What track do you use?

i have the same problem with Hornby track, so I’m rebuilding the layout with peco steamline

[Loopy loco]

I love it when you return faulty stuff to Hornby, here in Australia it is not possible it is bad enough with third world couriers deliving out of a back of a car boot.The front bogies on certain 4 -6 - 2  locomotives of mine de rail at speed. Scale speed is hard to do with gradients , the 2 -6 -2 locomotives never derail that front end swivel is more adapt to fast curves and points , it is amazing that there is faults with front bogies , they should be metal and spring loaded ,  happy de-railing  what a way to stuff up your day.

[morairamike]

I had problems with an A4 derailing and found it was the front bogie exerting too much downloado the track and  lifting the front driver off the track. Remove the bogie and place the loco on the track. All 6 drivers should be on the track. Now refit the bogie and look closely at the front driver are they on the track, if no then adjust the bogie bracket. If yes then check that the bogie is on the track not floating. Again adjust the bracket if required.

[atom3624]

Excellent point made just there.

Once you've verified the B2B, I had found it necessary to bend the brackets down to permit more weight on the front bogie, but some had been to the point of a partial loss of traction, and noticed the front drivers lifting ... so it's finding 'that fine compromise'.

It does work and so far I'm 100% successful using this protocol.

Al.

[96RAF]

I love it when you return faulty stuff to Hornby, here in Australia it is not possible it is bad enough with third world couriers deliving out of a back of a car boot.The front bogies on certain 4 -6 - 2  locomotives of mine de rail at speed. Scale speed is hard to do with gradients , the 2 -6 -2 locomotives never derail that front end swivel is more adapt to fast curves and points , it is amazing that there is faults with front bogies , they should be metal and spring loaded ,  happy de-railing  what a way to stuff up your day.

 

Welcome to the forums Loopy. I can see us whingeing Pommes are going to have some serious competition.

[Les paul]

The 9F, Thompson and P2 have the same Bogie system and it is very poor.

The wheels have no compression spring and the mounting pushes back when the loco is going forward.

All these 3 locos have a problem with parts of my track while every other loco is fine.

If see any hornby model with this bogie system I avoid it.

No adjustment, no flexibility and poorly designed.

regards

[Les paul]

The 9F, Thompson and P2 have the same Bogie system and it is very poor.

The wheels have no compression spring and the mounting pushes back when the loco is going forward.

All these 3 locos have a problem with parts of my track while every other loco is fine.

If see any hornby model with this bogie system I avoid it.

No adjustment, no flexibility and poorly designed.

regards 

[96RAF]

I don’t see why they need to have the link from the chassis frame to mount the bogie. Why not just pivot it direct onto the chassis frame like the prototype.

[atom3624]

I had my P2 circulating for a couple of hours the other week, without any issues.

I have found with some Merchant Navy locomotives, the front bogie is 'light'.

A little 'adjustment' essentially bending the mount bracket towards the track a fraction has them circulating without problem - would often derail over points previously.

If you put too much weight on non-powered wheels by this method / spring, you remove a little weight off the driven wheels - less traction.

I agree, a little fine adjustment is often required of many locomotives to get it 'just right', but I wouldn't single out 'this' or 'that' quite that simply.

As I mentioned the 1st time I replied, check the B2B first, then 'fine tune'.

Al.

[Bev1707822610]

I am unfortunate enough to have bought the flying Scotsman. The front bogie goes every direction but where it should. I will not buy another Hornby. Alex

[Going Spare]

If you can supply a specific loco identity (Rxxxx) as requested in response to your other current post, it will be much easier to offer possible remedies.

[ColinB]

I thought I had posted an answer to this, but I cannot find it, so my apologies if you have read the post before. On my P2 I added an extra sliver of phosphor bronze to the front bogie by gluing it on, this seemed to fix the issue. On the older Duchesses with the motor in the loco, I found replacing the front bogie with the later type fixes it. You seem to not be able to get the later type as a spare so I bought the one from the princess Elizabeth and straightened the bend in it, they are basically the same part just the mounting bracket is bent differently. On my Tornado I found issues with the front bogie which were fixed by using the A1 type with a spring, I also found that using split conrods instead of that long one piece one fixed the issue as well.

[Potterton]

@ColinB I admire your resourcefulness in dealing with these issues, but surely one should not expect to have these problems with new models.

Having said that, I have several Hornby models of varying vintages, (1 year old to 40+ years), and have to admit to never having had this problem. Maybe I've just been lucky.

[ColinB]

I have got to admit on all the "retooled" models I don't have these issues, it seems to be be all the older designed ones when the present management wasn't in place. In fact on both the Duchess and Princess Elizabeth you can see where Hornby have improved things, like as I said a better designed front bogie, better pickups. So I have to applaud the improvements they have made. The models I refer to are mainly the Railroad models and older Chinese made ones which I usually get secondhand probably because they had these faults. The post was to help out people that have issues, which as I said doesn't seem to happen with the newer "retooled" models. The only shame is that Hornby don't always sell the improved parts as spares.

[508006]

Hi Everyone. This is my 1st post on this forum as of today.

Anyway onto the issue of the derailing loco mentioned by Matt123x, can I ask please if you have tried using some of the bogie wheels with the old flanges post triang from a 1980s/90s loco.

I have a few locos that are loco driven that had the same problem of the front bogies derailing and found that the flanges on the wheels are too fine that they can easily derail even on a well laid layout, by swapping these newer wheels for older wheels I cured the problrm and the bogies now do not derail.

Hope this helps.

[flyingfox4475]

I found that most of my A1's and A3's front bogie would always derail on my Peco points and newer Hornby points. I have found that if I add extra weight to the bogie by adding small washer approx 3 and remove the spring seems to solve the problem. I have also notice that on my recent A1 Flying Scotsman and Woolwinder have been all able to use the points without derailing.