The death of the British model shop!

[Forum-1211528]

The British model shop is a dying breed when long established names like W&H Models vanished we knew there would be trouble as the sell direct cut out the middle man is one problem! In 1987 there were 18 model shops in Norwich now in 2018 there's one and that doesn't stock what you want, it doesn't do repairs and its so sad we are loosing these lost model shops! In Norwich lost shops include Galaxy Models, Anglia Toys, The Train Shop, City Models, Keller's and many more, these shops stocked various ranges and could order you models and did repairs which nobody does anymore! Its time to get away from the order direct from the manufactures lark, there must be local model shops and repair agents. The internet has obliterated the model shops, not helped at all by every manufacture selling direct this now can't be stopped but people must have a choice to go to their local model shop rather than the manufactures!!

[NWR-Gordon-4]

This is a problem, I know. Model shops are dying, but the Internet is certainly taking over them, particulary Hatton's Model Railways, Rails of Sheffield, eBay, etc.

 

I think this a problem for shops in general, not just for model shops. I find that more and more shops are closing down, due to the Internet's cheaper prices and convience of having the item delivered to the front door, rather than getting in the car, finding a space to park in, paying for it, walking to the shop and do the same again in reverse (I don't mean driving in reverse gear! 😉 😆 😀).

 

GNR-Gordon-4

[Howbi]

Inordinate increases in Rents and Council Tax in recent years has played a significant part in small shop closures.........HB

[The son of Triangman]

Sign of the times. The big model supermarkets, ebay, high rents, high business rates, recession, expensive utility bills, supplier trading regulations, the reaper, increasing EU regulation and paperwork, the internet, iut of town shopping, retirement have all taken their toll.

 

A couple of weeks ago I decided to test the market and open my business website on a trial basis for people to look around and see if they like the services, so far it hasn't attracted a single bit of trade and just shows how poor the marketplace is at present. I'm giving it a couple of days and then closing it again. There are better ways of earning a living

[Yelrow]

There must be model shops,Colin .?,  Are you offering to fund them.  The reason they close is their outgoing are more than their takings. Rose tinted Glasses are all very well, but as SOT, that was, will tell you, in today’s world, they simply cannot  make a living. Taint just model shops, even the big guys like Debenhams, Marksand spencer are in trouble.  It’s the same here in France, my nearest one has just closed. Of course, it’s a shame, but  I am afraid there is nothing we can do about it. They  are a victim of the changing times.

[walkingthedog]

Maybe it’s because you appear to be concentrating at a particular market M-R, I’m sure you’ll get customers. 

[Augustus Caesar]

Sound argument HB and one I concur with wholeheartedly. Whilst the Internet sales of models, and other merchandise, has certainly not helped, it is not the only reason why model shops have gone.

 

As you say higher rents/rates and other costs to a business have not helped... namely overheads like higher gas/electricity and even wages.

These days people want a high wage for doing little and when menial jobs are to be filled they run away from them because it's hard work or longer hours for a little less pay.

We also demand higher levels of free time so we can all have those fabulous holidays once out of reach of most folk. Society has become possession based and greedy for money without doing hard work to earn it in some cases. This is much to the annoyance of those who are deemed small businesses who cannot afford to pay those higher costs and the profit margins get smaller and smaller for them whilst being undercut by direct sales directives from companies who also find it hard to keep up with overheads costs.

 

This is why some manufacturers moved abroad and utilised cheaper labour for maximum profit. China is an example but then those people become more empowered and demand higher wages. And thus the cycle starts again whilst the companies seek other cheap labour elsewhere...

 

Have a look around at different shopping areas in this country and you'll see different things going on...

High foot fall areas where little traffic gets to sees more gift shops, model shops and the like than larger town or city centres where high volume sales are the norm of electrical goods and the likes. There's much more to it than all that above of course but I see it that way... and it is a shame but just a sign of the times.

 

With less time on folk's hands and more time spent away from home the fast paced society have no time at all really for model railways or similar. I believe it is mostly down to us more sedentary folk who are keeping the hobby alive.

[atom3624]

The main 'problem' with the developing modern way of life is many-fold.

1. Time and convenience - most of us simply don't have the time to 'just pop down to the shops' which may not necessarily be 5 minutes' drive, but a 15-20' hike.

2. When there, what are we likely to find - is there convenient parking? Are their prices competitive with other 'online' shops selling the same merchandise?

3. Is there any advantage for actually going in person?

I think Rails and Hattons have a good compromise - they have reasonably good internet communications - generally reply the same day - have a good stock or 'network stock', are competitive and provide this service both online, and (presumably, as it's 40 years since I've purchased anything from inside Hattons' shop when on Smithdown Road, Liverpool) a similar approach if you turn up in person.

 

Obviously, for an enthusiast to turn up in person, at such a shop, the wallet will probably get a heavier whack, and you may get an even better price - not that much if I remember the original owner - I'm presuming - must have been ~60 in the 70's.

 

I think 'the model shop' is alive and kicking, but it's format has evolved over the last 40 years or so.

Al.

[NWR-Gordon-4]

Arguably one of the biggest benefits of supporting a local model shop is being able to have locomotives tested in the shop; if the running qualities aren't up to scratch then another is pulled off the shelf without fuss.....   😀

 

This how I prefer to shop for locomotuves and rolling stock. One can also check out their build and paint finishes to and swap for anpther if not up to your own personal standards.

 

GNR-Gordon-4

[Bulleidboy]

Our local model shop has only been in existence since 2008. I use it when I can, it stocks most things you will require. I think the owner, may own the freehold - he is an accountant, and this is his hobby. When the shop first opened, pre-orering was a problem, as a new shop/customer, Hornby for example, would only let the shop have a couple of new loco's when they were introduced, so you would order whatever, and then when it came out, the shop could not honour the pre-orders, which was annoying. It is now much better, but although most loco's attract a 10% discount on RRP, the problem, as has already been stated, it that you can go online and get a greater discount, and unfortunately in this day and age, this makes a lot of difference as to where you shop. I agree, support your local shop, but if you can get something that's £30-£50 cheaper online, I'm afraid it's a no brainer. 

[NWR-Gordon-4]

That's I find myself buying from Hatton's Model Railways and Rails of Sheffield, more often than from Cheltenham Model Centre, BB!  😆

 

GNR-Gordon-4

[2e0dtoeric]

There is one model rail shop in Warrington, down a narrow street, with very limited parking on that street - if you can find a space. Failing that, it's a 20 minute walk from the pay-to-park multi-storey. The shop is quite small, and rather run-down. Last time I was in, there was one old (and I'm nearly 70) gent behind the counter, and it turned out they hadn't got the item I wanted anyway.

There are two 'out-of-town' model shops, now that 'Toys' have gone, one is that national hobby chain, with a significant mark-up on prices, and limited stock, and in the other, when I went in, I was ignored for about ten minutes, then treated like dirt, because I wanted a small part that cost £2, and not £200! I've not been back.

I got the part I wanted from Rails, next day and freepost. No walking, no parking fees, no getting rained on.

Fait Accompli.

[john205480]

My local High Street consists of betting shops ,estate agents and charity shops and the odd Greggs the baker .The rest in the main are boared up units that nobody can afford to rent .Woolworths was the first to go followed by the major department stores over the years .The council don't seem to care and have so many expensive parking zones it's a rip off no go zone.

Back in the 80's I was a sales rep for a large biscuit company and had many independant retailers to look after and enjoyed the job doing the best deals I could .Then the first ASDA opened and within a short time my retailers could not compete and went bust one by one .I could not offer them cost price that was lower than asda's retail .My job suddenly went from selling to standing inline at ASDA to collect a computer driven order and they even demanded we supply the staff to put the goods on display .Needless to say my company could not survive on such low margins and one by one we lost our jobs and the Company was bought out .  

I embrace and enjoy the choice available online and it maybe you cannot try before you buy on site but in my experience if I have a problem with a loco not running well I get a replacement sent without any quibble .Hornby online shop is no problem .

[NWR-Gordon-4]

@Caiptean

 

Very true, use it or lose it. The trouble is with Cheltenham Model Centre, I’ve found in recent years, is that had the products that I want, us not in stock and when they do, it‘s not been as cheap as Hatton’s Model Railways‘ or as Rails of Sheffield’s prices. Unless the product is discontinued and Hatton’s Model Railways and Rails of Sheffield have sold out and Cheltenham Model Centre have it in stock, or if another smaller model shop has the product in stock, then of course I will buy it from them.

 

GNR-Gordon-4

[The son of Triangman]

I've closed the site down Caiptean, the big piles of spare parts and equipment can lay dormant whilst I go off and do something that is more profitable.  The idea was to test the marketplace and enable people to see the site, I had 1407 site visitors and two enquiries about spares supply which isn't part of the business model.  Based on that hit rate and the fact no real business was generated it seems the idea was a non-starter and I need to rethink the business model. As a time filling on a rainy day business model railways have merit but as an income they are now a non-starter especially if you specialise.

 

I do think the days of the small to medium sized model shop are numbered and I agree it's very much a case of use them more than once a year and for more than a bag of scatter or loose them.

[The son of Triangman]

Thank you Caiptean, I will re-open the site at sometime in the future.

[Steve Lloyd Cole]

Living in the beautiful but industrial Northeast I have two model shops that I think give a great template for a succcessful business to survive, locally I have two within a 15 minute drive of my house.  One is Peters Spares, well known I should think to internet users, excellent on line stock but what is also perhaps not known so well is the excellent shop and staff who run the premisies, the knowledge and helpfulness they show plus the discounts that if you are not afraid to ask can be achieved to compete with Rails and Hattons, plus you get to handle the stock and see it run, they have deleveloped in my opinion a very good balance which I am fortunate to have on my doorstep, many a time I have made a mistake with locos and they readily repair and correct my errors for a very reasonable price.  The other is a more traditional model shop specialising in all forms of radio controlled cars/planes and electronics as well as our hobby, Stockton Modeller, again very helpful however they are on a side street off the High Street, in a poor area which I think detracts from their offering and I should expect rent is jigher than Peters which is located on an industrial estate. They also combine internet and shop services well, the on site shop offers plenty and second hand items particularly are well priced, this still remains a traditional shop yet I wonder if it will survive for long given its location? 

The debate will rage, I like most want value for money and will use the big box shifters, however as I look more closely at costs and take into account P&P I am finding that locally the service I get out weighs or is very clsoe to the box shifters and am supporting these shops more and more.

[walkingthedog]

You are very fortunate to have such shops on your doorstep.  😀

[atom3624]

I think they're all just 'signs of the times' and must move with ongoing trends.

Currently it's what is of maximum convenience - which includes ability to discuss prices, these being competitive, availability, ability to conveniently view stock, and ease of purchase without hassle.

 

Parking and access is such a pain wrt current 'I need this but have no time' attitudes, that physically visiting for many is highly unusual.

 

Most trade appears internet based nowadays, with 'the odd visit for ideas' occasionally, is certainly my way of operating, and probably similar for most.

 

Al.

[walkingthedog]

Although visiting a local model shop is very nice, I am amazed at the number of posts on forums that say "the man at my local shop said......" and the advice given is absolute rubbish.  😮

[VESPA]

I did say I wasn't coming back to this website but had to reply to this. Firstly there is a good model shop in Warrington on Orford Lane (Sankey Scenics) AKA Grimey Times. There is another in Culcheth. Not far away in Widnes is another model shop and just that bit furtur Hattons. The latter needs a car to access easily. ALL have many modelling items. Hattons was a shop in Smithdown Road started by Mr Norman Hatton. When he got older his son and daughter, Keith and Christine took over. Keith had the business acumen to go to internet selling. Sadly Keith died but Christine is still in the business. The new premises is a shop and warehose combined selling most guages and many modelling bits. The major owner now is Richard Davies who owns around 75% of the shares. Going back to Sankey Scenics/Grimey Times, there are two pleasant chaps there that have a good stock and knowledge of model railways with a great weathering service. Parking is available in nearby streets. There is also a good bus service from the town centre.

The reason that model railway shops are closing at an alarming rate is the declining grey hair department with spare cash and the ridiculous prices being asked for the product. My purchasing is now almost nil but I got a bargain recently for two O2 Heljan locos on offer at £89 a reduction of almost £100 from list. Hornby and Bachmann are now so slow at getting stock many bigger shops have  found Chinese makers and have their own items made rather than wait for the big makers. Oxford Rail can put out really nice wagons for £10 but Bachmann and Hornby want £15 + for similar items.

Lastly how many name changes have been made to posters on this forum, as I see some new names with the same writing pattern as older contributors under other names????

[walkingthedog]

Hello Vespa nice to see you.

 

It isn’t just model shops that are disappearing, it’s all types. The way we live has changed, it always has done. Thank heavens in many cases.

[Chrissaf]

Lastly how many name changes have been made to posters on this forum, as I see some new names with the same writing pattern as older contributors under other names????

.

• Freightliner has become Troublesome Truck.
• Son of Triangman has become Margate-Richmond.

.

There is at least one other recent change, but I can't remember who off hand.

[The son of Triangman]

Good to see you back Vespa.

[Postman Prat]

 Hi Vespa

 

Hope you're back here for good.

 

I haven't changed - still PP