Tender Driven

[KenTheFox]

Am I the only one who thinks tender Driven trains are rubbish? I've had three and all been poor.  ☹️

[The son of Triangman]

Ringfield tender drive units are fine and quite powerful but have to be kept in good maintenance, if they get run down and/or dirty then they give bother.  Traction tyres age so stretch with age and slip and should be replaced.  The magnets tend to loose magnetism with age so need remagnetising now and then as well.  Back bearing squeals when it gets dry.  Early ones could pull a house.

[walkingthedog]

I don’t particularly like them but wouldn’t say they were rubbish. I had quite a few once and they worked fine except for when the loco wheels locked and they skidded along. They served a purpose when the Ringfield motor wouldn't fit in the loco and at least the motor could be serviced. 

 

They work very well if you look after the loco. 

[atom3624]

Totally agree with replies.

Sounds like some careful maintenance would create some benefits.

 

My own tender driven locos years ago - Black 5, 9F and Mallard worked very well with smooth performance and a decent haulage capacity.

 

I prefer loco driven nowadays.

 

Al.

[KenTheFox]

The problem I’m having is this.

I’ve been building a new layout for about four weeks and been testing the track its 7’x 5’ up line and down line with a passing loop, Goods Yard, Engine sheds and sidings. I’m currently running DC for testing but will be going over to DCC as soon I’m happy with the track. All the Engines are now running well after a few problems and some minor adjustments apart from a R053 LNER 4-6-0 CLASS B17 2862 MANCHESTER UNITED. It has been serviced and is in good order.

It runs well at high speed, but in low speed runs well till it gets to a R609 curve then it stops and goes at very low snail pace with the motor humming for over about 1ft. It then kicks off and derails the front wheels on the tender. It’s the same on both tracks when running in same direction. No problems running in opposite direction.

I’m thinking it must be a contract problem but can see where or why.

[NWR-Gordon-4]

I also would not say that tender driven locomotives are rubbish. Some of them I have are extremely good runners, but my personal favourite is locomotive driven. I prefer this over tender driven.

 

GNR-Gordon-4 (HF)

[SRmike]

In my experience tender drive is fine when the connection between loco and tender is checked as the electrical connection (under the draw bar) can cause poor running.

[Mico11]

Ken,

I used to think like you regarding tender drive, but no longer.

Your dialog infers that you are an experienced operator, but have you had that side cover off the commutator to expose the armature for a good clean? This operation solved my general problems and I hope it may help you. I had a hell of  job getting the motor out of its chassis.

Ringfield went out of fashion many years ago and most modern loco drives are a general improvement. But don't give up.

[atom3624]

I can see the problem immediately, you need to change the name to Everton and it'll be flying around!!

 

Sorry, had to - not often 'we Blues supporters' get that opportunity!!

 

Check the locomotive is free-running, and see what happens without tender gently pushing around, in the area its coming off.

Standard things to start with are the wheel B2B - back-to-back dimension.

Try for a consistent 14.5mm between the wheel backs.

 Check the track is level, well-pinned if permanently positioned, and the track doesn't 'wobble', both literally and also when measuring - vertically and gapping.

 

After that, it's over to Ole and see she's running OK - no valvegear sticking, wheels rotating freely enough.

It could be a momentary obstruction which temporarily blocks the locomotive part, then the tender pushes harder, and itself off the track.

 

Al.

[walkingthedog]

Is the tender fouling the loco when this happens?

[Tony57]

Hi

I have no issues with tender drive locos as I have a number of them

The issue sounds like the loco motion gear must be binding as it hits the curves in one direction as the motor is still running. Try pushing just the loco around the track to see if you can feel any binding.

Ringfield motored loco can go round rad 1 curves so Rad 2 and 3 should give no problem

[NWR-Gordon-4]

I also would not say that tender driven locomotives are rubbish. Some of them I have are extremely good runners, but my personal favourite is locomotive driven. I prefer this over tender driven.

 

The list of tender driven locomotives I own are, as follows:

 

R383 Gordon the Big Blue Engine

R852 James the Red Engine

R9049 Henry the Green Engine

R9098 Flying Scotsman

R9232 Edward

R9289 Edward

R9290 James the Red Engine

R9291 Gordon the Blue Engine

 

The final three locomotives in the list above are the best tender driven locomotives I have; However, they all run well and that’s the main thing.

 

GNR-Gordon-4 (HF)

[The Doc]

It is quite unusual for the tender drive to derail.  Does it have both traction tyres in place?  If one is missing then the whole tender will tend to wobble.

Incidentally I have some Fleischmann tender drive locos and a first version of the Triang Hornby Evening Star which has the same mechanism - all dating from the early 70s I think - and they run very well for their age.  

[LCDR]

 Curiosly Tender Drive comes on for a lot of criticism, but lots of diesel (and electrics) models have had a very similar mechanism over the years, and I don't recall these being criticised to anything like the same degree.

 

Is it simply the unreliablity of the loco to tender coupling which people find so difficult.

 

In recent years Hornby have gone away from 'ringfield'  motors in diesels to the double ended can type motor so perhaps tender drive using this type of mechanism would be better?

[viking]

i'm 33 and virtually all of my tender locos are tender driven bar 1 loco drive triang flying scotsman, 1 4-4-0 Triang L1, 1 triang britannia and a deeley 3f tender loco (triang),  I actually prefer tender drive as they pull much better, far easier to service as well as you can obtain spares, I do use Steel early system 6 track on my layout though no issues, I even have 2 9f's with the original motor (all wheels driven on tender) and oliver cromwell, but I actually refuse to buy anything that is new steam loco wise simply because of the pulling power or lack of and you have to replace the motor after so many hours same with the diesels, just wish I could obtain a tender driven manor and 43xx

I rather service my locos rather than have locos sat there idle as you cant obtain a new motor, which I think is utterly stupid and hornby need to realise this. please can we have decent 'servicable' motors.

[walkingthedog]

I’ve never had to change a motor. Unless you run locos for hours on end or at crazy speeds they last for a very very long time. 

 

The pulling power is extremely good on modern steam and diesel locos, particularly diesel. They will pull far more than is necessary for almost all layouts. 

[Stubaggieboy]

I must agree with WTD tender drive locos or ring field driven diesels were ok in their day, it’s like comparing a car from the 1980’s to a modern day equivalent, anything with traction tyres for me is a no no and as for them pulling better than modern locos they don’t even come close.

[LCDR]

 All wheel drive for diesels and electric locos has to be the ideal, with the entire weight spread over all axles. Only the more expensive models will include this feature. Many of these have huge internal weights hence their pulling power.

 

I think too I may have answered my own question.  Diesel and electric models with ringfield motors tended to include a massive steel weight, which was impossible to achieve inside a tender.

[KenTheFox]

Well finally sorted. I have taken the middle none drive wheels off the tender and it now flys round and as been no problem at all after lots of running hours. After many hours of

[planhands]

I agree, rubbish! I have a tender drive Scotsman, runs well on flat track but can’t even get itself up a 2% grade. Tyres are all good and the locomotive runs freely.

[Going Spare]

In that case, something is not right with the locomotive as a 2% grade should be well within its capability.  Does it not have the power to get up the incline or does it slip to a standstill? If the latter, are the surfaces of the traction tyres glazed so they are not gripping the rail well, or are the tyres not tight in their grooves?  If the former, does the motor run but the wheels do not turn?  Which version of Flying Scotsman do you have? 

GS

 

[atom3624]

It does sound very unusual.

What I remember of my tender-driven locos in the past has been well-written above - motor needs a bit of bedding in, can be a bit temperamental, but generally performs extremely well, and with the tyres should have no problems with what you were describing.

 

Got to be a problem with motor / tyres as GS implied above.

 

Al.

[JJ73]

This is (as far as I know) the only Tender driven Loco I've got...& never had any probs with it!!! (this will please Jacob!!!)

 

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As you can see...this is "James the Tank Engine" from "Thomas the Tank Engine" & the only reason why I bought it is b/c he has the same name as meeee!!!  😉 😀 😆 I don't think / see any differance between Tender or loco Driven!!!

[Ruffnut Thorston]

James the Red engine....

 

Is not a tank engine....note the lack of a water tank arrangement on the locomotive itself.

 

The water and coal is carried in the tender...

 

Why can't James the Red engine sit down?

 

Because he has a tender behind! 😉

[atom3624]

Sarah, that is terrible, you know that!!

 

Al.