Chrissaf Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Have you looked at prices from all the other manufacturers, it is the same across the board I'm afraid. If it was made in the UK I reckon the prices would be even bigger. You should send this to Hornby and post their response on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexhill Donkey Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Hi Mr Frostie T SnowmanIf you can't afford the current range of Hornby products, there is plenty available second-hand or nearly new on eBay. If you don't mind being a few years behind the times you need not spend a vast fortune to have a layout! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 I am not in the habit of making my thoughts know on forum's, but I have just been looking through the Hornby 2020 email that I have received and I am astounded at the astronomical prices being quoted for some of these items. Who can afford to buy these? I can think of a few names that can purchase them without blinking an eye probably, but for (I would guess) most of us it would take a lottery win to be able to afford or even be able to justify the cost of £300+ for one item for a hobby! I will be the first to put my hand up and say that I have now reached an age where I am easily shocked at prices these days, and yes, that may sound like just the sort of thing a person in their senior years might be forgiven for saying, but it's the truth! My limited understanding regards modern model railway engine manufacturing is that the vast bulk are now being produced in China, presumably because they are cheaper to make there, and the workers there don't command the wages that their counterparts in say this country demand? Given the astounding prices being quoted for items from China, where is the justification for outsourcing jobs from this country, and because they are cheaper to make there, why are the costs so high, is it the import costs? If this is the case then why can't a major company like Hornby manufacture them themselves, or is it that we don't have the skills or tools required to compete with countries like China? When I was young, items coming from China were considered inferior? What's changed? I mean no disrespect to workers in China or others, for the quality finish on some of these models is amazing, and I also understand that it's a very competitive market, given the way Hornby brought out their Terrior range ahead of other manufacturers shows just how competitive it is! To get back to my subject, with Brexit looming, it is the enthusiasts that keep the hobby going, we are the ones who love the hobby, but in my humble opinion, if it means doing away with manufacturing the perfect detail possible to cut the costs, then I for one would consider this acceptable! My opinion only! It would be interesting to see how the costs quoted are broken down into simple form, without bluster, showing the actual manufacturing costs per item, the importing of the goods per item, and how much mark up or profit companies like Hornby include in the final cost to consumers? Sorry if this sounds like a whinge, but I'm confused . Com!RegardsFrostieTSnowman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Many of the 'box-shifters' have sales from time to time with great bargains. Today I took delivery of a Southern EMU from a well known West Country source, at half its normal price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 I have never paid the rrp for anything. As LC says there are some amazing bargains regularly from the bigger shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doc Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 An online retailer in Sheffield currently has a sale on of, for example, some Bachmann steam locos that look rather good. For example, an LNER O4 2-8-0 loco at only £69.50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazy Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 those Are cheap! Look at the German models double even triple the price and you are getting close. look at old prices 1970/80 a house £1.500 give or take, walkers crips 7p bread 10p fish and chips what about 60p a Hornby Princess about £25 (1980) today house £200,000 12.5x increase walkers chirps 75p. 11x increase fish and chips £8. 13x increase princess £200 8x increase so the models are cheaper in comparison and are light years ahead in detail what dose make it feel worse are all the new bills you now have. mobile, PC, WiFi etc which are eating into what was disposable income Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazy Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Ebay can be handy also if you have a Facebook account theirs plenty of model railway groups on there many have for sale sections where bargains can be had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 To put RRP into perspective most of the retail sites, including those not considerred to be major box shifters, are offering each and every one of the new releases with a substantial discount, even those items that have not even been released yet like the new DC app controlled system, which is really no forecast for delivery yet. I have just been browsing Gaugemaster’s retail site and they are dropping prices between £5 and £50 depending upon the item/set. How can they do that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Certainly couldn't buy a house "down south" for £1500 in 1970/80 - I paid £6500 for three bed semi in 1971. I paid £12 for a Hornby Sir Dinadan in 1974. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Two bedroom terraced house £10,000 in 1975. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Hello & Welcome to the Forum FrostieTSnowman 😀Well going back to topic (kinda) Some time I go to my Local Model shop in Chesterfield (WD Models) & he always give me a cheaper price than what Hornby does - If you Live any where near Chesterfield try him if not then try your Local Model Shop & I bet thay they will beat Hornbys price!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjb1961 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 i know it's supposed to be a hobby but to me it's become an obsession and the prices are what I've come to live with ,im like WTD ,I've never paid rrp ,well not untill today ,I've had to order the centenary Rocket from Hornby ,I was a bit slow at deciding and missed out on a £20 saving from some retailers,generally I shop around and find that item I want will a decent saving ,my only advice to the op is to google the R number of the item and I'm sure you will find that item at a more reasonable price ,but not the centenary Rocket because the discounted ones have sold out 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWR-Gordon-4 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I agree with you, mjb1961. The prices today for all model railway products is a joke. Every year it goes up and up and up and to be honest with you, not many models are worth their price tag anymore. I also never pay the RRP. I always shop around and try and find the lowest price for a model that I want. GNR-Gordon-4 (HF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Jacob., model railway prices are as previously pointed out, much cheaper in uk, than their rivals elsewhere. American/ german/ swiss/ italian, etc, are at least 50% more. Hornby have had to move production to china to remain, competative. Had they still produced in uk, they would no longer exist.. The prices, are in no way, ajoke, they are what the market will stand... My father used to say, if you dont like the heat, get out of the kitchen. Nobody forces us to buy these items new, indeed,l i have not done so for nearly 3 years, being content , if i need something, to buy it, used from either ebay, in uk, or france, or from leboncoin, here, in france.People,constantly complaining on a Hornby forum, which, is not read by hornby, will in no way, bring about a change.. The solution, i am afraid, is either to bite the bullet, and fork out, or, to quit the hobby. . We the public, are demanding better quality, realistic sounds, better control, etc, and there is a price to pay for this.. I have looked at the 2020 releases, and found Nothing of any appeal to me. Price, was not a factor. . . john , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 The answer is choose another hobby. Think you'll still be in for a shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWR-Gordon-4 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 @Yelrow and @walkingthedog I understand all of that/ I love the hobby and I do not want to change my hobby. I do realise that Hornby products are relatiely cheap to some countries, but would be nice if they were cheaper. Take the two Retro Triple Wagon Packs announced for this year's range. Each contains a SWB Tanker and two LWB Box Vans; Both wagons Hornby have produced longer than I have existed for. I am sure with the logos, licensing has been acquired to use the logos on them, which affects the price. I still don't understand how those can be RRP of £44.99, when they are effectively RailRoad wagons and have less detail. Even with the licensing, I still feel they are overpriced, even though you can look at those wagons and say they are about £15.00 each without the packaging. I feel those wagons should be £10.00 each, so £30.00 for one triple pack. I am just glad I live in the country I live in, as model railway products are cheaper in the UK than other countries. I do feel sorry for other countries though, who pay even more. GNR-Gordon-4 (HF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 £15 per wagon does not seem excessive nowadays, especially as they are commemorative so will attract a premium, and are likely to be limited availability. They are not my 'cup of tea' but I know wagons in brand liveries are popular and the type goes back to the early days of Hornby, Pre-War. The old Hornby tinplate wagons with 'Cadbury's', 'Seccotine' or 'Jacobs Biscuits' etc. branding are the most expensive on the 'collectable' scene, some going for in excess of £300, and if you can want to buy a 'Palethorpe's Sausage' van in mint condition you won't get a lot of change from £1,000. Hornby no doubt are hoping these go the same way.If you don't want to pay that there are cheaper alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzpjl8 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 those Are cheap! Look at the German models double even triple the price and you are getting close. look at old prices 1970/80 a house £1.500 give or take, walkers crips 7p bread 10p fish and chips what about 60p a Hornby Princess about £25 (1980) today house £200,000 12.5x increase walkers chirps 75p. 11x increase fish and chips £8. 13x increase princess £200 8x increase so the models are cheaper in comparison and are light years ahead in detail what dose make it feel worse are all the new bills you now have. mobile, PC, WiFi etc which are eating into what was disposable income Fazy, thank you for responding with data; and how critical this is as part of the discussion. Very telling that in relative terms, the locos are cheaper, and there is no comparison between the current Princess and the 1980 version. Down here in Australia, things were even more expensive than in the UK due to distributor costs years ago. I paid in actual todays money £80 for my 5 car APT. I loved it, make no mistake. But take a look. The New one is going to be £380 full price. We are talking 40 years ago! And we can imagine the difference in motor, pick ups, additional parts, moulding accuracy and detailed decoration, lighting, DCC ready etc. It's is a sad fact that we have given our manufacturing businesses away in general; make no mistake, there is no issue with quality of items made in China to specs supplied from western companies at all. Its not just the direct manufacturing cost, the savings extend right through the whole value chain, including tooling costs, raw materials, you name it. I choose items today just like I did when I was a teenager; carefully! Lets all support the hobby as much as we can within our means, and celebrate the quality of the items we are now offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexhill Donkey Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 When I was a boy in the 1960s, your pocket money was something like 2/6d a week and a clockwork train set cost £5 and an electric train set was out of the question. I had a clockwork set. My Grandmother bought me a Pullman car which looked out of place hauled by 0-2-0 clockwork loco! It was very difficult to get beyond an oval of track and acquire a point and additional track to make a siding.There are two approaches to Railway Modelling. One approach is to ignore cost. The other approach, taken notably by C.J. Freezer is to adopt a make-do-and-mend rationale and suggest building a small layout into a Ismall space such as a cupboard under the stairs which the domestic authorities are prepared to let you requisition for the project.An early book which I obtained from the Public Library is called The Model Railway Encyclopaedia. This tells you how to construct large projects such as a viaduct, but the approach it takes is to ignore cost. I used to go into model shops with my girl-friend and come out with something such as a truck or a signal. She did eventually say to me that Model Railways were not a suitable hobby for someone who does not have the space or the cash. She looked at The Model Railway Encyclopaedia which I had borrowed from the library and remarked such a book would have a terrible effect on somebody who could not afford it. We discussed this. We thought that there is a distinction between Railway Modelling as advocated by C.J. Freezer and Model Train Collecting.A Model Train Collector is not a Railway Modeller. They are somebody who lives in a large owner-occupied house and who has plenty of space and spare cash. The manufacturers are obviously catering for this market, producing highly detailed and expensive models, deliberately putting features into the models which will appeal to collectors. If you are not in this category, you have got to accept it is no good complaining about prices - you are not in the target audience!Although collecting model trains is a harmless enough hobby, it is a different hobby to modelling and you have got to recognize this. If you haven't got the money I would just go into the Model Shop and come out with a SuperQuick or Airfix kit of something such as a footbrige. Stick it together and put it on your layout! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWR-Gordon-4 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 @LC&DR £15.00 for a well detailed / modern tooled wagon is not overpriced, but I feel for older made wagons, such as the SWB Tanker and the LWB Box Van are over priced, even though they contain classic Hornby collectible liveries; Despite the original tin plated models sell for hundreds or pounds, if not thousands of pounds. GNR-Gordon-4 (HF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 My point is just that, it is the fanciful livery that drives up the price. The underlying model is 'bog-standard' but the multi coloured livery, especially with metalic printing, will cost more to produce and because they are regarded as special will attract a premium price. It is all for show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWR-Gordon-4 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 I agree. It's for show and is a collector's item. A wagon with the Cadbury logo on is unrealistic on any sort of layout. GNR-Gordon-4 (HF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 You reckon Jacob. /media/tinymce_upload/f01d2535d5f6b4e349d35af923bf9424.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Or even better. /media/tinymce_upload/03b38987103c4841816a97c4132f6462.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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