Hornby quality control or not?

[sir john]

Hi All

Just recieved R3448 welbeck abbey. On opening was disappointed to find a buffer lying in the box on further investigation also found a loco step hanging by a thread. After replacing buffer and regluing step placed on rolling road to run in. Found that the valve gear was failing the front bogie truck. On investigation, found piston rod was bent, straightened now all ok very disappointing for a new loco. Think Hornby need to get their act together locos are getting dearer quality is getting worse.

Regards john

[Will Hay]

I wouldn't ever recommend repairing anything brand new, especially from Hornby.

Although they may be presently dreadful with QA, their post-order customer service is second to none.

As for their current quality, I now refuse to buy anything.

My recent purchase of the £300.00 R3957 went back unopened, after I saw various reports of poor paint quality.

[sir john]

@Will Hay

Normally I wouldn't repair but it was a simple fix less bother than sending it back

Regards John

[Will Hay]

Understood and very frustrating.

I've never had this with alternative manufacturers.

[SD Stephen]

I am appalled by Hornby’s very poor quality products. Elsewhere on this forum another contributor states that the Chinese expect a 10% failure rate. That is not acceptable when you look at the high purchase prices being asked by Hornby.

Stephen Dimmock

[Howbi]

To balance the adverse views and opinions littering this Forum I have to say I have not experienced any quality issues at all with any of the Hornby locos I have purchased recently. I am impressed by the level of detail and quality of finish. They have all been fitted with various makes of decoder including TTS and all run faultlessly via an Elite controller. Surely, it can't just be my good luck all the time?

[Bulleidboy]

I agree with Howbi - I have been buying Hornby loco's for many years - and have a large number. The only loco I ever had issues with is the R3333   BR 4-4-2T Adams Radial - this loco had the DCC socket incorrectly wired - this meant some very careful work with a soldering iron. I understand it was a fairly general problem with R3333. I have not had any bits falling off - a super detail loco needs very careful handling, especially when it comes out of the box for the first time. May be like Howbi I too have been lucky.

[ellocoloco]

I must also be a lucky man....I've 14 of Hornby's Electrotren locos and MUs and all have been in excellent condition when I have first purchased them and although I have suffered premature gear failure on two over the last 16 years I have had no other reason to complain. Finish and performance have all been first class.

If I was to compare my first Electrotren locos to the last two Bachmann locos I bought - a pair of DF11s - the Electrotren ALCos win hands down. If I were to compare them both to the likes of the Roco DB BR101 of a similar vintage, Hornby's models are much closer the Roco benchmark than the rather crude DF11s. I have models from 15 manufactures and I would place Electrotren second only to Roco in terms of performance, detail and reliability.

My observations at exhibitions are that many exhibitors have no idea how to handle models and its no surprise to me that damage gets done to fragile detail parts. I imagine this is reflective of many modeller's judging by the number of moans about availability of spare detailing parts, which shouldn't really be needed if people respect their models. If a model arrives damaged in the post I would blame the courier rather than Hornby.

Sir John - sorry to hear your model arrived damaged, but glad to hear you did the decent thing and sorted it. That's what I would have done if required.

[Fazy]

10% rejects! I don’t think that would be likely, that’s going to dent the profits by 50% if we go with the average of 20% profit margin most companies aim for.

If you go on multiple websites there tends to be customers posting negative feedback on multiple websites. So it dose looks worse then it is. Also happy modellers don’t moan on, so we never see a balance view.

For myself I think I had to stick a steam pipe on a new Rebuilt Patriot once when receiving a new model.

So Will you sent a model back without even looking at it yourself. So you can’t say anything About the model as you didn’t bother to look.

Over the last year I’ve bought 6203, 6205, 6212 and 46252 and have all been perfect absolutely no problems with finish or running quality.

Yes there’s obviously some quality issues which need to be addressed but it is not as bad as it looks at first glance.

[ColinB]

I must admit virtually all the new models I have bought off Hornby have been OK. I bought R3633 off of a Retailer and the reversing rod was in the box. I did get it awfully cheap at least £50 off, so I just glued it back. It may be that is why it was cheap. I had a KIng loco when the motor popped out of its mounting when I first ran it, again I fixed it as it was the last one the Retailer had in stock. Just recently I have been fixing the previous version Duchess chassis and noticed that the replacement motor holders were made with the motor mounting hole too small, I just couldn't understand why the motor didn't sit right. Again I filed the bracket to suit, I could blame it on the previous management but the chassis on the latest release is still the same, plus they use "black tack" to help to hold the motor in.

Trouble is I read all the posts and coming from an engineering background I can see why Hornby have so many issues. They are just over optimistic with their designs, so when you get "tolerance stack up" with parts you get issues. I must admit Hornby don't seem to have got the idea of separately fitted parts, they seem to think just a dab of glue will work, which generally allows the part to just fall off in the box. Bachmann seem to design them in, so the glue is not so important although they definitely don't seem to be able to get a decent drawbar design (the one on my class 812 just broke, it was too thin).

[JJ73]

Hey Sir John

I also have the 'Welbeck Abbey' - it came in the 'Signature' Range - in the 'East Lincs Special' Train set a few yrs ago back in March 2019. The only thing I found wrong was the back right buffer had fallen off the Tender - apart from that - a very fine Loco!!!

You will also fined that the 'Coal' in the Tender does come out if you wish to replace it with your own real broken up small bits of real coal!!! 😉🚂

[The son of Triangman]

The only duff ones of note I've had recently were the first issue of the new Stephenson's Rocket in the retro Tri-ang branded packaging. It arrived with two coach buffers missing, a wheelset was out of gauge, and the water barrel had fallen off in the box. The original form W1 arrived with broken deflectors, both went back and were replaced quickly.

Since the China move in 1997, I've had loco's arrive with bits in the box, wires badly soldered, valve gear issues, holes not tapped correctly, dodgy driving wheels, gearing issues, wheels out of gauge (very common), motors not working correctly, mazak rot, poor paintwork, poor lining, and badly fitted handrails. All brand new loco's. Hornby QC seems to have improved under the current management but there is room for improvement as with anything.

[TVR1707822112]

Like, every single Hornby loco I've bought I've had to send back for repairs. What's frightening is; A: The price, and, B: Some of them were from the RailRoad range!

I've never had an issue with their rolling stock, though.

Best wishes

[CORKY.]

My Class 66 has ribbed sides and other detail items , but the applied stick on panel is so thick that it does not allow the ribbing to show, it just sticks to the raised part of the ribbing, not the valley, so it just looks flat, and tiny detail items do not show through properly. Perhaps not so much a lack of quality control, but more a lack of design planning. It seems the retailers realise this problem too and are offering huge discounts. And don't try to smooth the plastic film into the ribs... the colour comes off.

[sir john]

I agree it's a really nice loco runs really well .only ever returned 1 hornby loco to the retailer been buying since 1971 so have purchased a few in my lifetime recently purchased steady aim after all the adverse comments was pleasantly surprised to find it was in tip top condition and runs perfectly

Regards John

[ColinB]

Sam pointed out that issue with the class 66 in one of his reviews, as you say that is a design issue. I buy lots of secondhand locos off EBay and some have minor faults and you wonder if they have had these since new and perhaps that is why the Seller is selling them. The thing that really annoys me about Hornby, is that they don't sell spares of the parts that fall off, the amount of locos you see with missing buffers and the sprung loaded ones are difficult to source. Then there are are the bits on the body. I understand stocking spare parts is expensive but as I say they could just stock the ones they know are going to fall off.

[Topcat2018]

This won't please the Hornby management, but I agree that the availability of spares on the Hornby website is poor. On the recent series about Hornby on the Yesterday channel it annoyed me every time the manager (I forget his name) said that a Hornby loco wasn't for just for Christmas, it was for keeps. Well it isn't if you can't get spares.

As a pensioner on a limited budget I can't afford the eye-watering prices of new models and mainly buy second-hand British made. They aren't as detailed as newer models but they are far more robust. Where necessary I buy more than one and cannibalise one of them for spares.

[VESPA]

I have just had my latest Bachmann Club magazine and they have now a dedicated spares unit. They always have had spares but now it's much easier with them. Why can't Hornby do that? The quality control is less than acceptable in such a high priced product but that is because China don't want junk back and make buyers pay up front in US Dollars. With all the failures surely a spares unit could be set up out of returns with several companies rather thanjust relying on what seems like one, Peter's Spares.

[DarkRedCape]

It’s always cost vs profit. Personally I think a Hornby spares department would be very popular and the parts would sell like hotcakes. However, it’s cost vs profit. Could they run a department like this and still turn a profit? Would they have to price the parts high to ensure a profit, and therefore putting people off of buying.

Obviously I’ve never seen Hornbys financial records, so purely speculation on my part, but given how fast the parts would shift, I’d be surprised if they could run a spares department and not make a profit.

[ColinB]

I hate to say it but Bachmann seem to bother, I don't know whether they run it at a loss but generally they have spares for most models and they are fast and efficient. I have managed to get spares off them for old split chassis models and quite a lot for new models. When the Pantograph broke on one of my models I mailed them. Although I had to buy the whole Pantograph rather than the bit and if I didn't want to fit it I could have bought a whole body with it already fitted. I don't know if Peter's Spares are having issues, whenever I enquire about a part I get a pretty grumpy response and they seem to have run out of a lot of things. AC Spares and Lendons are my most popular sources they seem to have a lot of things that Peter's Spare have run out of and they are generally cheaper and more pleasant. As to Hornby they just want you to buy new locos, just remember "it is all about the detail", shame a lot of it falls off.

[sir john]

@Colin B

I have to agree about Bachmann I have quite a few Manor locos I have converted to Dcc.As you will know when you dismantle them the insulators are normally brittle and usually need new axles .Bachmann have never let me down and have always had the parts

John

[ColinB]

@Sir John entirely agree, in my case it was A4s and Jubilees that I converted to DCC and sure enough soon as you split the chassis bits of the plastic spaces fall out. Bachmann supplied full replacements. The thing I find quite amusing, for a lot of spares on the Service Sheet Hornby don't even provide a part number, things like weights and on some, even the pickups, so you couldn't buy them even if Hornby did carry spares. Then there are things that are spares that would very rarely break. I bought a replacement Britannia tender, the new type that has space for the loud speaker, except the plastic bit at the front that holds the drawbar on, they don't supply as a spare and it doesn't come with one. So you very carefully have to try and unglue the one off the old one. Fortunately, they do still supply the whole tender bottom with everything for not much more, it is dumb marketing.

[TVR1707822112]

I have to agree Bachmann service is second to none.

[sir john]

Once again I have to question Hornbys q.c.just received a new loco 01 even without taking it out of the packaging I could see I broken drain cock 1 bent connecting rod and the screw holding it to the wheel not fully tightened the mind boggles

John

[Will Hay]

You're certainly having some bad luck lately.

That's your second recently, and only two since 1971!